Actually, Wes Ball had completely different plans. After successfully completing work on the Maze Runner trilogy, he wanted to immerse himself in the fantasy universe of the Mouse Guard comic series and bring the story of the brave mouse brotherhood to the big screen. Shortly before filming began, the $170 million project fell apart due to the Disney-Fox merger.
Ball spent three years developing the material. In 2019 he was faced with a huge shambles of concept drawings and test footage and had no idea what his directing career would be like. It was at this hopeless moment that an unexpected opportunity presented itself to him: directing the next installment in the Planet of the Apes series – one of the most iconic sci-fi franchises.
Based on Pierre Boulle’s novel of the same name, the first Planet of the Apes film was released in 1968. This was followed by four sequels and a controversial remake by Tim Burton in 2001. A decade later, Planet of the Apes launched the reboot trilogy directed by Rupert Wyatt (Part 1) and Matt Reeves (Parts 2 and 3). And this trilogy is now followed by Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom.
The trailer for Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom:
Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom – Trailer (German) HD
Before Ball knew it, he was dealing with digital monkeys instead of digital mice. But how do you make the tenth film in a sci-fi series that has reinvented itself several times? Ball and his team had to overcome creative and logistical challenges. There was support from James Cameron’s camp, who paved the way for the new Planet of the Apes film with Avatar: The Way of Water, as Ball reveals in the interview.
Moviepilot: Let’s start at the beginning. How did you get involved with Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom?
Wes Ball: I originally had it with Matt [Reeves] worked on Mouse Guard for 20th Century Fox. This was during the time when the Disney-Fox merger was happening, and our film got lost in the process. Maybe one day I will return to this world, but at the time I was pretty depressed. Then the new Fox studio came to me and said, “You worked with the motion capture technology at Mouse Guard and learned everything from Matt that he gained on the Ape films. What would you do? do the next part?”
Did you say yes straight away or did you still have hope that Mouse Guard could still be saved somehow?
At first I was unsure. I took a week to think about the offer. Then I have with you [meinem Produzentenpartner] Joe Hartwick tossed around a few ideas and I realized I wasn’t really interested in a fourth part. Instead, I wanted to open a new chapter and see how it ties into the previous story. There are now ten Planet of the Apes films. Where would our place be in the legacy of the franchise? That was my starting point. Then I spoke to Rick [Jaffa] and Amanda [Silver] who produced the reboot trilogy and wrote the first two parts. However, they were skeptical and just said, “Wait, didn’t we just do that?”
Now they are still listed as producers in the credits of New Kingdom. How were you able to convince them with your ideas?
Ultimately we just started talking. They said, “We just wrote Avatar with Josh Friedman, you should definitely talk to him. He’s the perfect writer for the movie you want to make.” So I met with Josh and told him my loose ideas. He then brought them all together in one story and came up with the timetable for the new chapters. We worked on the details of the script for a year and put it into a filmable form. When we finally got the green light, we went to Australia and shot the film there. That was about two and a half years ago.
Disney
Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom
Did all of your original ideas make it into the script?
No, we had a lot of ideas that we couldn’t afford to implement. [lacht]
Can you give me an example?
I came up with a huge action set piece. Basically, I wanted to make the best horse chase ever seen in cinema. In the sequence, Mae would have been passed from one monkey to the next on horseback. In my head that was really cool because it would have taken place in the rubble of a highway interchange – with all the twisting levels and massive structures that would have collapsed. It was really crazy, but we couldn’t afford it. The sequence was simply too big, too much, too expensive. So we had to cut it, as well as many other smaller scenes. We had way too many ideas for a film. Unfortunately, I can’t tell you what those scenes were because we might include them in future films if it continues after this one.
You already mentioned motion capture technology.
The cast wears gray suits with reference points that are later converted into the monkeys on the computer. How exactly can I imagine filming a film like this?
Filming was very tricky. I knew it wouldn’t be easy if I took on a blockbuster like this. I have a bit of visual effects experience, but this was a whole other level. Now I have a whole new appreciation for what Rupert [Wyatt] and Matt [Reeves] have created. These films are incredibly difficult to make. But most of the time we actually shot on real locations and built real sets. Of course, many of these sets will later be digitally expanded. We layer multiple layers of visual effects over the shots. But it’s important that we start with something that feels real. Last but not least, the set quickly becomes abstract when the actors arrive in their gray motion capture suits with the ping-pong balls. They have little dots on their faces and cameras that record their performance. Nevertheless, we shoot it like a normal film. We just have to imagine them as monkeys.
But isn’t it extremely difficult to retain a feeling for the film with so many alienating elements?
The most difficult thing was that we worked with an active and spontaneous camera – a lot of handheld camera with complex movements. It all came down to timing. First we shot the scenes with the actors and followed their movements with the camera. This material later serves as the basis for animating the monkeys. When we were happy with it, we shot the scene again – this time without the actors. This means that the cameraman has to repeat the movement with the same timing. But there is no reference in the frame. The cameraman has to know exactly where the actors were standing and where they are about to stand – and that’s exactly when he has to pan so that we can later combine the two versions on the computer. Usually this is done with motion control cameras that can be programmed down to the smallest detail, but we didn’t have time for that. It takes hours. That’s why we worked according to gut feeling. In most cases it worked, but it wasn’t easy.
Did you always film with just one camera or with several like Ridley Scott, who recently had up to eleven cameras running at the same time at Napelon in order to shoot as much material as possible in the shortest possible time?
Most of the time I only film with one camera, sometimes I also have a second one. And then we always have this huge truck on set that houses the computers and hard drives where we store all the data. You always have to take this organizational effort into account. That was significantly more for Planet of the Apes than for a normal film. With Maze Runner, for example, I managed 30 to 40 setups a day. There were ten at most here. You have to work really efficiently and carefully. Every day you feel like you’re losing the battle because you can’t get the attitude you want. Luckily, I have a Splinter crew that I can just send out when I see something interesting. “Hey, see that forest over there, can you film that quickly?” That saved us a few times. The recordings turned out great. In post-production we added a monkey on a horse.
Disney
Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom
How long does it take after shooting until the film is finished?
Once we get to the editing room, we look through the footage and filter out the versions that fit together best. A take here, a shot there. In the end, the film is reinvented again in post-production. We spent a year and a half putting together what you now see in the cinema from countless individual parts. At some point you get to the point where monkeys move through the picture, breathing and talking as if they were real living beings. I can’t emphasize enough what an incredible job the team did. Not just with the monkeys: the water in particular was a big challenge that we probably wouldn’t have mastered without Avatar’s preparatory work.
In the end, what would you say is the relationship between “real” and digitally edited recordings?
As I said, we filmed in many locations that actually exist. However, there are 30 to 40 minutes in the finished film that were created entirely on the computer. All environments, all characters in these scenes were created with computer-generated effects. We’re definitely following in the footsteps of Avatar and hoping that the audience won’t notice the difference. This tree? It’s not real! And neither does this background. We couldn’t have afforded to build all that. It would have been too complicated and time-consuming. But in the end the combination was a lot of fun. I’ve always wanted to make a big motion capture film and see how far I can go. You have a lot of freedom in this process to create a world in which you can then let off steam.
Have you ever considered doing the film in volume like The Mandalorian?
Not really. [Das Team von The Mandalorian] was kind enough to invite me to set so I could see how they used the volume. But it wasn’t right for our purposes. We already had to exchange so much on the computer for our film that I didn’t want to work with digital backgrounds anymore. I wanted to be on set and be inspired by the surroundings. Because that’s exactly when you get the great pictures you least expect. I think it’s important in filmmaking to maintain a sense of spontaneity. Especially with a blockbuster that is otherwise trapped in clearly defined processes. On the set of The Mandalorian I felt rather limited. Everything has to be planned down to the smallest detail before filming. We didn’t have that much time. It’s definitely an exciting technology, but you have to use it correctly.
When you say that 30 to 40 minutes come entirely from the computer, did you also use AI support for the film?
No, not with this film. I keep up with developments around AI and try out a few things every now and then. For a film like Planet of the Apes, AI would probably only be used in the planning phase when it comes to visualizing certain scenes in advance. In my opinion, AI is not a tool for the final images. But who knows what will happen in the future. It’s developing incredibly quickly. AI is not going away. And we have to learn how to deal with it and what it means for us as artists. Maybe AI will make it easier for us to share the ideas and images we have in our minds while making films. But it will probably be very messy and complicated until we figure out how best to actually use the technology. But it will definitely happen, I think.
Planet of the Apes: New Kingdom has been running since then May 8, 2024 in the cinema.