Retired from political life since 2002, sentenced in 2021 in the Karachi case, François Léotard speaks rarely. “I don’t miss it”, laughs the person concerned, from the town of Fréjus where he is spending his retirement. The former Minister of Defense, from 1993 to 1995, nevertheless calls for an awakening of the President of the Republic, whom he accuses of “naivety” and “lightness” on questions of international politics. Interview.
The Express: Ukraine prepares its counter-offensivedo you think it has a chance of reversing the dynamics of the conflict?
Francois Leotard : It is very difficult to have a definite answer. The Ukrainians have rediscovered a patriotism and military methods that would allow them to reverse the dynamic, when Russia seems mired in the conflict. One could judge that the renewed optimism of the Ukrainians and their will to succeed will outweigh the stupidity and the scandal that the Russian attitude represents today. But I am not a prophet! I can’t tell you who’s going to win. It is in France’s interest to support with all our might this Ukrainian will to resist. I regret that there is not more political support for those who want to resist this invasion.
Ukraine has just received a few dozen Western tanks. But the Ukrainian general staff demanded 300. Should France do more?
I believe the answer is yes. Macron is a man who constantly plays the balancing act in international politics. But he does not always have the reflexes of his predecessors, other presidents and prime ministers who have lived through much more difficult times for France. We stand in solidarity with Ukrainians, but we should be THE country that does the most to help Ukraine. This war is also the extension of all the conflicts that we have known since 1945 and in which we have more or less participated, I am thinking for example of the Berlin crisis. France’s role should be much clearer and more vigilant.
The Germans and the English deliver heavy tanks. France only delivers light vehicles. Should we go to the next level by sending Leclerc tanks?
It should ! It is curious that in the European trilogy – British, German and French – we are not more present. The British, despite the significant internal disorder in their country, have shown a form of international courage in their positions. This is not our case ! Emmanuel Macron’s caution is not a very good sign. We have a role to play.
We feel you are very critical of Emmanuel Macron’s “at the same time”, who supports Volodymyr Zelensky, and also warns against the temptation to crush Russia. By dint of introducing too much complexity, doesn’t that blur the message?
Above all, I believe that there is in him a form of naivety vis-à-vis Russia. For a long time, his phone calls infuriated a number of French experts. They know well that for Russia political kindness has no meaning. However, we feel that for Emmanuel Macron it is a principle: do not get angry, solve problems by talking… It is a mistake! The Russians, as things stand, cannot be our allies and friends, it is not possible.
“Where is the will, the courage, the decision?”
Is the European Union on board in this war?
No, unfortunately… It doesn’t have a political arm, strictly speaking, nor a military arm. It’s a pity, we haven’t progressed fast enough and deep enough for the construction of a military apparatus. Look for example at the Franco-German brigade, which exists. No one talks about it anymore! We don’t even know where it is. Attempts have been made, but I regret that the Europeans are fearful on these issues. It’s fine to be pacifists, I’m not a warmonger, but there’s a naïveté in taking advantage of the sweetness of countries that aren’t directly threatened, forgetting moral requirements. That hasn’t always been the case for Europe and that’s a shame.
You had announced that you would vote for Emmanuel Macron before the presidential election of 2022… Are you one of the disappointed with his start to his second five-year term?
In a way, yes. There is a form of reluctance and lightness in his positions. It’s very curious. We have the feeling that it leaks a little. He is a man of negotiation, why not, but the excess of intelligence makes the will to resist disappear. And that is unfortunate. I got to know him a bit at the General Inspectorate of Finance: Emmanuel Macron has immense intellectual qualities. Can political life be satisfied with it? Where is the will, the courage, the decision? Negotiating constantly, it has to stop at some point. A power must appear for what it is and what it thinks.