Born in Israel in 1978, Yael Vias Gvirsman studied law at the University of Strasbourg. A specialist in international criminal law, she opened her law firm in Tel Aviv in 2013. Today, she represents the families of 53 Israeli citizens victims of the Hamas attack on October 7. Several of them were released during the truce, like Mia Schem, a 21-year-old woman. Yael Vias Gvirsman testifies about how she experienced the Hamas attack and evokes the dramatic fate of the terrorist movement’s hostages.
L’Express: You represent the families of many people affected by the Hamas attack at the International Criminal Court in The Hague. How do you live this experience?
Yael Vias Gvirsman: The day after the attack, October 8, families contacted me to approach the International Committee of the Red Cross [CICR]. At first I thought I was just connecting the dots. But then I focused on bringing together the testimonies. I have substantial experience in this matter, but this is the first time that such atrocities and crimes have occurred on Israeli territory. I represent the rights of these victims to obtain recognition through legal action. I represent families before the International Court in The Hague within the framework of universal jurisdiction. Some are missing, we needed time to identify their DNA, because they were burned alive. Others are still in Gaza, and a third part, a minority, 18 people, have returned to Israel since the start of the truce on November 24.
How do families cope with this situation?
There are many tragedies to be told. These families are torn apart. You should know that more than 300,000 people have been displaced from their homes since the start of the war to be safe. Each is a whole world. But what always strikes me is the courage of these families, especially those of the hostages. These people go from one funeral to another. The atrocities they experienced are imposed on their lives, but a great solidarity exists between them too. They communicate and support each other, Jews, Muslims, Arabs. Those whose loved ones have returned say they will not be satisfied until everyone has returned home.
The tragedies of these hostages do not end with their release: they are traumatized, have lost a lot of kilos, some are no longer able to speak after spending weeks in the tunnels where they were only allowed to whisper. They have a long road ahead of rebuilding their lives. What unites their stories is the sadism, the unimaginable horrors that were committed by Hamas. This movement thus revealed its desire to torture civilians, it did not just treat them like animals, because you cannot do that much harm even to an animal. We have a lot of horrible stories to tell. As soon as we cross the boundaries of sadism, anything is possible.
Do you think, by bringing together these testimonies, that an international arrest warrant could be issued against the leaders of Hamas? ?
We are working to obtain this mandate, but it will take time. It’s entirely possible. We have hundreds of evidence of these war crimes, with complicity on the part of the leaders in Gaza.
La France insoumise considered the October 7 attack carried out by Hamas as a reaction to Israeli violence. What do you think ?
I find this absurd and shocking. France, where I studied, is an astonishing territory, it is the country of freedom, of the values of the Republic and, at the same time, there is great obscurantism there. In History, several atrocities have been committed, such as systematic rapes in the Balkans, massacres in Rwanda, violence in Algeria. None of this happened in a vacuum. There has always been a context, but this context does not legitimize the crimes.
In the case of Hamas, I confirm that it had no reason to do what it did. His crimes have nothing to do with the freedom of the Palestinian people. Those who commit barbaric crimes against children, women, men, those who thirst for blood must not govern a people. Hamas carried out these crimes with great composure. Until today we have people missing, we don’t know where they are. If Hamas were a liberation movement, it would not kill Israeli Muslims. These Muslims were present at the Tribe of Nova festival at the time of the Hamas attack. They shouted: “We are Muslims”, before being eliminated. I would like to point out that Arab Muslim Israelis saved hundreds of Jewish Israelis by taking them away in their cars, they risked their own lives.
“Shani Louk was raped by a crowd that encouraged the rapists”
Is there discrimination in Israel against Arab citizens taken hostage?
There is no discrimination regarding hostages. We only need to walk the streets of Tel Aviv to see images of Arab captives, like Aisha al-Ziadna, who was released on November 30. But, to be fair, inequality exists in Israel on an economic and social level, but does not specifically concern Arabs. The most oppressed category in Israel, especially in the Arab community, is that of women. More work is needed for them to obtain their rights, particularly in terms of work. Women, during the Hamas attack, were the most affected.
How do you explain the silence of certain feminists in Europe, including in France, on the violence committed against women on October 7?
The denial of women’s suffering is not new. But it hurts more when it comes from activists who carry the flag of protecting women’s rights. This contributes to the loss of meaning of these feminist organizations. But we also have women and men who oppose the torture practiced by Hamas on women.
I believe that in a dark room we just need to turn on a light to illuminate the truth. This truth cannot be denied: the extent of Hamas’ specific sadism towards women will be known throughout the world. We have a lot of evidence. We just need to watch the videos filmed by Hamas fighters. Shani Louk, whom I represent, killed during the October 7 massacre, was raped by a crowd who encouraged the rapists, they celebrated her suffering. She was half naked, the rapists had made her their property. I must say that these sexual assaults were committed on 8-year-old girls as well as on 80-year-old women. They were massacred, deprived not only of their lives but also of their dignity.
Hamas regularly broadcasts release videos of smiling hostages, shaking hands with Hamas soldiers, waving goodbye or even hugging them. How do you explain that ?
It is a staging that presents the people of Hamas as saints. Watch the Yocheved Lifshitz video – I represent it. She was one of the first women to be freed. She is 85 years old, she lost several kilos during her “stay” in Gaza. She stopped, turned and shook hands with the Hamas militiaman. I confirm that she did not do it because she had been treated well, but out of humanity. In other videos, the hostages were forced to do what they did to show the “good” side of Hamas. These people had armed men in front of them, how could they refuse to do what was asked of them? Afterwards, there are also those who were well treated and protected, these are individual cases which do not represent the general situation at all. It also doesn’t erase the fact that at the beginning, when the hostages arrived in Gaza, all of them were tortured. Listening to the testimonies of the hostages today, we discover the atrocities they suffered. On the other hand, we should not focus on these videos, but on the essential: taking civilians hostage is a war crime.
“I wish Hamas leaders loved the Palestinians as much as they hate us Israelis”
Thousands of Palestinian civilians have been killed during Israeli bombardments of Gaza since the start of the war. Is this legally legal?
From my personal point of view, war is meaningless. A good man does not do it. Legally, it’s probably legal, according to the laws of war: if two armed men kill each other on a battlefield, there are no crimes against humanity. What is illegal is targeting people outside of combat. We need to clarify this word: “target” is what Hamas did. However, the Israeli army is not committing genocide in Gaza on purpose. Its enemy is Hamas. If this movement surrenders today, the war will stop immediately. The Israeli army was not in Gaza until October 7. It is there because Hamas, at the same time as committing massacres against Israeli civilians, launched thousands of missiles at Israel. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as shields, and it leaves the Israeli army no choice. Let us remember that Moussa Abou Marzouk, one of the leaders of Hamas, declared: “The tunnels in Gaza are intended to protect fighters, not civilians. The protection of civilians in Gaza is the responsibility of the United Nations and Israel .” Hamas uses the Palestinians. I think if it wasn’t for Hamas, they could rebuild everything in one day. Today, the worst thing is being a child or a woman in Gaza. I wish their leaders loved them as much as they hated us.
According to your observations, do the majority of Israeli victims want the war to continue to free the other hostages?
Those I represent are mostly modest people, they work in agriculture in the south of Israel. Today, their lives are broken, but that has not changed their humanity. I have not heard, even once, a sentence of revenge. They simply want justice to be done. They are aware, like many Palestinians, that there is no longer any possibility of living together in the future as long as Hamas exists.
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