With Rabiye Kurnaz vs. George W. Bush, in the running for the Golden Bear, the German Andreas Dresen signs a sensitive and entertaining film in a 72nd edition marked by dystopian works. Interview.
Andreas Dresen succeeds in his comedy with a serious subject based on a real drama. Rabiye Kurnaz vs. George W. Bush recounts the victorious fight of a mother of Turkish origin in Bremen to free her son imprisoned in the American camp of Guantanamo, in Cuba. Murat, 19, is innocent, but he had the imprudence to leave for Afghanistan after the attacks of September 11, 2001. He will remain detained for five years.
RFI : 20 years after these historic events, was it time to make an entertaining and sensitive film about everything that went wrong in Germany regarding the American military detention camp at Guantanamo ?
Andreas Dresen : In a way, yes. Knowing that for us, it’s not so much a film about these political dysfunctions, but a film about the strength of the weak. That even simple people can successfully defend themselves against the political conditions in the world. So it’s a story about the concrete case of Murat Kurnaz in Germany, but it’s also a universal story about the fact that we don’t always have to suffer what politics imposes on us. We can stand up against it, each one of us.
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When things go wrong, we still have humor. Is that why you staged this terrible injustice regarding a Guantanamo detainee as a comedy ?
This idea came from the real Rabiye. At first, I wouldn’t have dared to do a comedy with Guantanamo in the background. It seemed absurd. But then I met Rabiye, Murat’s mother, and she’s like that! She has that sense of humor! When you meet her, you first notice her warm laugh. When we talk about her, we can’t talk without humor, it’s part of her life.
And then, little by little, we thought that maybe it could be useful to give this aspect, because the subject itself is heavy enough, it has an incredible gravity and hurts. It’s also a drama, so it’s liberating to be able to laugh every once in a while. I was very happy at the premiere at the Berlinale Palace, because I had never seen this with spectators and I noticed how much we laughed. And on the other hand, we also cried a lot. It’s a back and forth. It was our goal, but we always know afterwards if it really works.
The hero of the film is not Murat, the prisoner of Guantanamo, but his mother, Rabiye, who is in the kitchen, does the cooking and the ironing, when she is not crisscrossing the region at the wheel of her husband’s Mercedes. Did you find with Meltem Kaptan your Marianne Sägebrecht, the German star who broke our hearts and made us laugh at the same time ?
[Rires] I would be delighted if Meltem Kaptan could make such a career. It would be great for her. She’s a great actress. A very fine, very intelligent woman. For me, it’s a stroke of luck to have found Meltem. His main job is indeed – until now anyway – that of comedian. You notice it when you work with her. She has incredible timing. This is seen in her stand-up shows, when she interacts with the audience. We also notice it when she plays scenes. But it does not only have this facet. It can also be very soft and very permeable. Sometimes, suddenly, she shows a child’s face where you see her soul directly through her eyes. It is a very great gift.
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An important theme in your film is the danger of accepting a retreat from the rule of law in times of crisis. Another main theme is integration. You wonder if there are really the same rights for people coming from other countries, like here from Turkey. The absence of nationality is also mentioned. On the other hand, you also bring out a relaxed approach in their relationship with Germany, for example when Rabiye drives in a Mercedes or solemnly declares to his children : “ Homeland is where you can eat your fill “. As a filmmaker, what did you learn from the film’s heroine’s secret recipe, namely : “ Best to start in Turkish and finish in German “.
One can learn a lot from the original Rabiye. She is a woman who always recovers. She does not let herself down. You can learn from her that you shouldn’t be discouraged, that sometimes you have to see things from a different angle. He is quite simply a person who never ceases to surprise us, like his approach to religion. One day she said to me: You know, Andy, God makes our lives easier ! ” Which sentence ! God is not there to impose rules on us, but he must help us get through life well.
Then I also find it very pleasant to feel that this Turkish culture, that I can experience in this Turkish family, is at the heart of German society. She is here, she has arrived. These people are part of it in the most natural way. They change language like shirt, sometimes in the middle of a sentence. That is why it is so shameful that German policy, when it comes to helping such a person, first asks for his nationality. It makes me ashamed.
Murat is now a social worker in Bremen. Twenty years after the start of this Guantanamo scandal, is German society now ready to look this story in the face, to recognize the innocence of this 19-year-old young man, denigrated at the time as “The Taliban of Bremen “, an innocence that has long been proven, but long kept secret ?
Personally, I would very much like Murat to be freed from these prejudices too. At the time, when I read the headlines: Bremer Taliban », I do not know exactly what I thought, but in any case, I was not suspicious enough. We are quickly tempted to be fooled by such clichés: there is someone with a long beard… and we fall into this trap. We should all be wary of this kind of information.
The policies of the time were also driven by fear. They said to themselves: if we bring this Murat back to Germany, what will happen if something happens? This has led to great injustice. I think the majority of people in Germany are quite ready to finally revise Murat’s judgment. I just wish politics would too. Serious political mistakes were made at the time, and they are actually proven. German policy has not only been inactive in bringing Murat Kurnaz from Guantanamo to Germany, it has actively prevented it! It’s a big difference. It’s a big scandal. And it’s proven. I find it really shameful that no one has said until today: ” We are sorry “. It should have been done a long time ago.
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