By declaring war on Ukraine, a country supported by the West, Vladimir Putin is forcing all capitals to take sides in this conflict. Israel initially wanted to remain neutral and a possible negotiating partner for the Kremlin. Finally, during the vote at the UN on Wednesday March 2, the Jewish state joined 140 countries in condemning the Russian invasion.
Ambassador Yael German has just taken up her duties in Paris. In an interview with L’Express, it explains Israel’s caution in this matter and warns the West against another threat, that of Iranian nuclear power. The ambassador also defends her country against the accusations of “apartheid” brought by Amnesty International and expects France to condemn the NGO’s remarks.
L’Express: At the start of the war in Ukraine, Israel wanted to remain neutral and mediate with Russia. What is your country’s position today?
Yael German: We talk little about this subject in Israel but, as Foreign Minister Yair Lapid pointed out, we are in the Western camp alongside America, France and Europe. However, we cannot forget that we have a border with Russia, since Syria is, in fact, Russian. We must remain cautious.
Is an evacuation of Israeli citizens and the Jewish community in Ukraine underway?
Of course, we are ready to evacuate them and we have been working on it for weeks. We want to protect Jews and Israelis in Ukraine.
What do you think of the diplomatic efforts led by Emmanuel Macron and do you believe that it is still possible to speak to Vladimir Poutine?
We believe it is always better to talk than to shoot. We must always do everything to avoid war and I hope that it remains possible to dialogue in this conflict.
Other international negotiations are taking place in Vienna around the Iranian nuclear issue. An agreement with Iran could be found in the coming days. How does Israel view these discussions?
We are very worried, not only because of the nuclear issue, but also because of Iranian precision missiles. These missiles are in Lebanon, on the borders of Israel. Hezbollah has more than 100,000 missiles: imagine 100,000 missiles aimed at Paris. It’s not Hezbollah or Syria who will decide where and when to fire these missiles, it’s the Iranians. We will do everything, and we hope that our friends will do everything, to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power.
Israel had opposed the previous nuclear agreement, in 2015. If a similar agreement is reached, without taking ballistic missiles into account, would Israel oppose it?
Sure. We want a better deal to move forward and protect ourselves. We must always privilege diplomacy, it is true for the crisis in Ukraine as for Iran. But sometimes it’s not enough and we have to think about other solutions. All the cards are on the table. All.
Internally, Amnesty International published a report on February 1 denouncing the apartheid system in Israel. How do you judge this report?
I’m furious, really furious. Our teams at the Embassy have of course read this report in its entirety. It is clear that Amnesty does not believe that we have the right to form a nation state of the Jewish people. As long as there is a nation-state of the Jewish people, for Amnesty, it will be apartheid. But that has been our raison d’être since 1948: to form a Jewish state, for all Jews in the world. So that the Holocaust never happens again.
There have been many reactions in Israel to condemn this term apartheid…
The first to condemn it was Mansour Abbas, the leader of an Arab party: Israel is not perfect, but there is no apartheid. By what right can Amnesty say that we are pursuing a policy of apartheid? We live next to Iran, Syria… Of the whole region, they choose Israel, whose very powerful Supreme Court will ensure that there will never be apartheid. It was she who decided on the complete freedom of movement of the Arabs in Israel. It is she who protects democracy.
The law prohibits discrimination between the different communities of Israel, but that does not mean that it does not exist…
The law is very clear. It may happen that some do not like their neighbours, whether they are Jews or Arabs. But the law prohibits any discrimination between Jews and Arabs, between women and men… Even if there are laws, people think what they think.
The LGBT community is the one that suffers discrimination: homosexuals cannot marry, adopt children or have recourse to a surrogate mother. Bills are in progress and will come to fruition in the years to come.
Is a two-state solution, Israeli and Palestinian, still possible?
I believe in this solution: two states for two nations. Yair Lapid also believes in it. But there is a coalition government which is a miracle, which is fragile and which must be kept, because the alternative is very dangerous. For the moment, the solution of two countries for two nations cannot be discussed, for lack of agreement within the government, just like the subject of constructions in the West Bank.
But if I give you a peace deal now and you take it to Gaza or the West Bank, do you think anyone there will sign it? No, nobody. The Palestinian Authority is afraid to sign peace with us. It’s always been like that.
Isn’t time against a two-state solution?
I hope not. We have signed the Abraham Accords in recent years: more Arab countries are at peace with us. In two years, there will be even more of them. When the Palestinians see that we are at peace with many Arab countries, they will perhaps understand that it is time to make peace with Israel.
In Gaza, we want to invest in the economy for peace. We recently signed such a wonderful agreement with Jordan: thanks to money from the Emirates, Jordan produces electricity for us, we produce desalinated water for them. That is peace. We can make peace with Gaza this way.
You have just taken office in Paris. How do you judge the state of Franco-Israeli relations?
We are good comrades, in our values but also on a personal level. Yaïr Lapid gets along very well with Emmanuel Macron. We have the same beliefs in freedom, equality, fraternity: these are values for which we also fight.
But I am disappointed that France did not react to the Amnesty report. I expected the same condemnation from France as from the United States, the United Kingdom and Germany, who said that it was nonsense. I am still waiting for France to say so.
This relationship has been cooled by the Pegasus case last summer, with revelations of spying on French politicians and journalists by Israeli software. What guarantees has the State of Israel been able to provide France so that this does not happen again?
This scandal is in the past, water has flowed under the bridge. Yair Lapid and Benny Gantz [NDLR : le ministre de la Défense] explained everything they could to the French authorities: Pegasus did not come from Israel, but undoubtedly from other countries which spy. The French know that we are doing our best to protect them.
In France, we are in an election period. Eric Zemmour tells his own version of French collaboration during the Holocaust. What do you think of his campaign?
I do not comment on French domestic politics.
But does the political climate in France worry you?
I’m worried about racism and anti-Semitism, but that’s all I can say.
Anti-Semitic acts have been on the rise in France in recent years. How can you fight, at your level, against this phenomenon?
I would like that, when they hear the name of Israel, the French see a democratic nation at the forefront of culture, science, health, renewable energies. It would be a victory if they knew better the only democratic nation in our region. Anti-Semitism is not just a slogan, it is violence, murders: Hyper Cacher, the attacks in Toulouse, Sarah and Ilan Halimi…
Faced with this phenomenon, many French people have left France for Israel in recent years. How many are there and how do you help them in these steps?
Last year, 3,600 French people did their Aliyah. Of course, we help all Jews who want to go to Israel. But we do not encourage French Jews to come: we know that France is their country, that it is a magnificent country with a thousand-year-old culture, in music, literature… We understand all those who want to live here. Personally, I like living here.