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During his last speech, Emmanuel Macron announced an overhaul of parental leave and a plan against infertility for the “demographic rearmament” of France. But will these two proposals be enough to remedy the drop in the birth rate observed in France? What about the desire to have children? Or even the realization of the project of becoming parents? Mathilde Bouychou, psychologist specializing in perinatal care, author of the book “Desire for a child” and the podcast “Parentality(s), educating is understanding”, gives us some answers. Interview.
Emmanuel Macron recently spoke of “demographic rearmament” to cope with the decline in the birth rate. What do you think of the terms used?
These terms do not seem appropriate to me. Using a war term to talk about something very intimate is still quite offbeat. On the other hand, it is relevant to question the reasons why we are having fewer children in France, provided we try to understand it at different levels – political, economic, social, or psychological. This is a much broader issue than the simple fact of ‘demographically rearming’ France. These terms are not in line with the reality of what people are experiencing, what they are going through around this issue.
What can concretely block the desire to have a child?
There are a lot of reasons and causes, but it is mainly linked to each person’s story. It is important to understand that some people are indeed blocked regarding this desire to have children, but that others simply do not want to have children. These are two very distinct things. In other words, they do not feel the desire to have a child, it is not blocked. There is the question of desire and that of the project. It is also important to distinguish the two here. We can have this desire, but believe that the world is going badly, not having enough money, or an apartment that is too small, for example, and choose not to make this project a reality. Sometimes, this transition from desire to project is also slowed down by fears. They are two different things which are based in a certain way on the rational and the irrational with a conscious and sometimes more unconscious dimension. There is often a very strong amalgamation that is made, which says desire necessarily means realization, while things are far from being that simple.
Can the overhaul of parental leave, mentioned by Emmanuel Macron, influence, not the desire, but the plan to have a child?
What influences the plan to have a child is the security provided by the country’s family policy: the ability to be able to devote oneself fully to one’s child, without worrying about one’s standard of living or finding a job. After. Better pay for parental leave goes in this direction. The future will tell us which parameter plays the most role between time and remuneration. In some countries, parents can benefit from long-term, highly paid leave; which really makes it possible to offer the population optimal conditions to carry out the project of having a child. With the development of child psychology and neuroscience, we also know how important the presence of parents is in the first days, weeks, months of a baby’s life, so what do we put in place to concrete to support them during this period? Both from an economic and political point of view and from a mental health point of view. It is also important to raise the issue of medically assisted procreation, knowing that France is lagging behind some of its European neighbors. But the law relating to bioethics, which regulates medical practices in this area, has just been revised (in August 2021, editor’s note) and it turns out to be rather restrictive, among the most restrictive in Europe at least. Proposing a plan against infertility implies measures that may not be possible because of this law.
The birth rate has fallen in France, that’s a fact, but does this necessarily mean that the desire to have children has also fallen?
Certain injunctions were much more important in the past, such as having children as soon as the couple settled down. Women had children, that was not a question. This notion of wanting to have a child is ultimately very recent. Before contraception and voluntary termination of pregnancy, in other words before having full control over the moment of having – or not – children, this notion did not exist. This does not mean that the women necessarily had children, some did not, but certain questions were not asked. Moreover, studies show that the number of women who do not have children is rather stable, the birth rate is falling because women who have children have fewer than before. The desire to have children has not diminished, but the couples’ project is now coming to fruition through one and only child. Many people would like to have a second, or even a third, but face many difficulties, particularly financial ones. They are also worried from an ecological and political point of view, about the world of tomorrow for their children.
Due to certain injunctions, do you have patients who consult because they consider the fact of not wanting children to be abnormal?
No, I do not think so. In any case, it’s never phrased that way. I see parents who have children because there is this social injunction, but it is so internalized that they do not perceive it. They take it as their own desire, and find themselves suffering. During the work that we do together, we realize that this desire for a child was not fully carried out by them themselves, and the reasons can then be diverse and varied, whether it is to please the grown-ups -parents or do like the others, for example. However, these situations are quite rare. The desire to have a child is complex, made up of multiple dimensions that make it up and drive it.
Is it so natural, as we often hear, to become a parent?
No, absolutely not, it’s a construction. There is nothing natural about becoming a parent, just like sexuality is not a natural thing. It builds whether it takes time or not.
However, we still talk about “maternal instinct”, a preconceived idea according to which women are made to be mothers. With this “demographic rearmament” plan, is there a risk of making those who do not want to have children feel guilty?
I don’t know if this can make them feel guilty, but there is a risk that it will stigmatize them. This actually brings us back to certain injunctions and preconceived ideas, when the important thing is to find solutions and means for women who want to have a child – and let’s leave those who don’t want one alone. The question we must ask ourselves is: how to give women, and more broadly couples and individuals, the means to realize this project in the best possible conditions for them. And I don’t have the impression that this is what we are asking ourselves today.
There is also the question of mental health and personal development. Are we more aware today of the upheaval that the arrival of a child represents?
Indeed, representations move, evolve. New images of what it is to be a mother, father, parent appear. There are many experiences of parenthood. It’s never all pink or all black, everyone will construct their own palette of grays. Access to these more nuanced, less idealized discourses and representations is important. Many people have become aware of their fragility and the damage to their mental health, particularly with the Covid crisis, and this can actually have an impact on the arrival or not of a child. Parenthood is a major identity upheaval that we cannot master before experiencing it, so it is a significant source of concern. Many people tell me they feel fragile, vulnerable, and are panicked at the idea of having a child in these conditions, despite their desire to become parents. There are fears of not being able to take on this new role, knowing that there is no going back, of course.
Could this have an impact on the birth rate of future generations, who are more affected, according to numerous studies, by mental health problems?
Above all, I think that younger generations are more aware of the fragility of the world, and are also more aware of ecological issues, which can influence their choice of having children or not. And here again, I specify that this choice will not necessarily mean that they do not have the desire.
What are the consequences of welcoming a child because you have to, and not because you want to?
Parents can find themselves in a situation of suffering, which can only have repercussions on the child. And a child who does not feel wanted by his parents will also suffer, with long-term consequences. It is enormous suffering.
*”Desire for a child – 15 stories to question and better experience your relationship with parenthood” by Mathilde Bouychou and Mathilde Lemiesle at Editions Solar.