Marat Gabidullin, a former mercenary of the Wagner group, publishes Me, Marat, ex-commander of the Wagner army (ed. Michel Lafon). Recruited by Wagner in 2015, he slams the door, disgusted, in 2019, and decides to tell his story which will be published in 2022 in Russia.
It is a unique testimony. Marat Gabidullin is the first to recount openly the battles waged by the Wagner group in Donbass, Ukraine, as well as in Syria and Africa. The existence of this private military company is still denied by the power in Russia, which officially prohibits mercenary activity.
RFI: Do you fear for your safety?
Marat Gabidullin: My answer to this question is always very simple: it was before that you had to be afraid. Now the Rubicon is crossed. I want as many people as possible to know how this military company works from the inside. The world must know the reality, see the real face of Wagner. I know that this face is sometimes not flattering, that nothing is simple. But Wagner’s image is often demonized in the press. And for good reason.
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What do you mean ?
A few years ago everyone was talking about a video about the execution of two Syrian militiamen. Those responsible for this execution have been identified as mercenaries of Wagner. And I think it was.
Did you know them? Were they with you in Syria?
No. I don’t know them personally. Everything shows that these mercenaries were part of the battalions formed in 2017 in a hurry, just before a major military operation in Akerbat. Among these new recruits, very few had military experience.
Do you confirm that members of the Wagner Company committed war crimes in Syria?
Neither I, nor my colleagues, nor the soldiers who were under my command committed any. We don’t have civilian blood on our hands. But you have to understand one thing. Who is a Wagner soldier? He is a man who has no accountability. It has no legal existence, no clear status. He acts with absolute impunity. He will never answer for his actions, his crimes in court. So it all depends on his personality. But I would like to emphasize it here – often these are men who have military experience and who do not have psychic problems. They are able to make good decisions in times of war.
But those who join Wagner’s army, those who have no military experience, where do they come from?
Hard to say. Especially now during the war in Ukraine. I don’t think they do any sorting, that there are no strict criteria for going to the front.
That is to say that at this time, Wagner continues to recruit men to send them to Ukraine?
Yes. There are troops being trained right now to fight in the Donbass.
Your testimony is very sensitive. Three Russian journalists were killed in the Central African Republic when they tried to investigate Wagner. And you, you reveal secrets to us with your face uncovered. Why does Wagner let you speak?
I didn’t ask anyone for permission. I simply think it is important to talk about it, because the problem of private military companies is extremely important for Russia.
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Did you receive any threats after your testimony?
For the moment, I do not feel any danger because I am far from Russia. But most likely, knives are being sharpened against me there.
How closely is the Wagner company linked to the Kremlin and the Russian army?
Russian legislation prohibits not only mercenarism, but even private possession of automatic weapons. But such companies do exist. This therefore means that these companies are protected by the State.
Who created the Wagner Company? Was it an initiative of the powerful Evgenii Prigozhin who is called “ Putin’s cook and whom you know personally?
I wouldn’t want to mention names here, I don’t see the point. But the scheme is simple: there is a man ready to act, with an entrepreneurial spirit, very close to the tsar who has a business project abroad. He proposes this project to the Tsar and asks for money and resources. The tsar agrees, he gives him the necessary, but on the other hand, he asks him to promote the political interests of his country beyond its borders.
For you, was the role of the Wagner army in Syria appropriate?
We must not forget that in Syria we fought against the Islamic State organization, the plague of the 21st century. But I understand that by going to fight against a ferocious beast, we allowed another ferocious beast, which is Bashar el-Assad, to stay in power. It’s a less violent and less dangerous wild beast, but it’s still a wild beast that has caused a lot of suffering to its people. While his army was weak and ineffective.
In your book, you explain that it was you and your comrades who were on the front line at the front. Much more than the soldiers of the Russian army.
The war in Syria was won by mercenaries. All the most important military interventions were carried out by us, and not by the regular army. The taking of Palmyra, of Akherbat, it was us! What happened in Akherbat speaks volumes. We did all the work, then we were ordered to leave town. This is where the Russian army entered the city with the journalists. The soldiers, followed by cameras, liberated an already liberated town!
And when you went to Ukraine in 2015, it wasn’t to fight the Islamic State group. What was your mission and why did you accept it?
I was a victim of Russian propaganda, I shared his ideas. We were told that the Nazis who took power in kyiv were threatening the Donbass, that “the Russian world” had to be saved. I thought it was necessary.
Who gives orders to Wagner’s army, according to you? Russian generals, officers?
Without a doubt, and that’s normal. They are in collaboration with the center of the commands of the Russian army. Otherwise it would not have been possible on the ground, the troops never make decisions on their own.
You left the Wagner company in 2019. Were you offered to participate in the current war in Ukraine?
I’ll never be let back into Wagner, I’m a persona non grata for them. But in September, another private military company contacted me. As soon as I understood that it was a question of going to fight against Ukraine, I told them that I could not. It goes against my beliefs, I told them frankly.
But in 2015, when you went to Ukraine, did that bother you?
Yes, but my mission in Lugansk marked me a lot. The two months I spent in Ukraine made me understand that we were lied to a lot in Russia, that the propaganda did not correspond to reality. And I even wanted to leave Wagner after 2015. But I was offered to go to Syria – a distant Arab country that I didn’t know. Fighting against the Ukrainians, my compatriots, and against people I didn’t know, it was not the same thing. So I continued, including to earn money.
How much were you paid?
At the time, it was 80,000 rubles (about 1,200 euros) during training. During the war, 180,000 rubles per month (2,600 euros), and in case of participation in combat 240,000 rubles (3,700 euros).
What is your status here in France as a veteran of Wagner – an organization often deemed illegal by the European Union?
For now, I don’t have a residence permit, I’m just a tourist. But if I feel there is a danger for me in Russia, maybe I will stay. I’m not ashamed of anything. I have not committed any act for which I will be criminally responsible.