For thirteen years, no Georgian president had come on an official visit to Brussels. Before the MEPs on 31st May, Salomé Zurabishvili pleaded for Georgia to obtain the status of candidate for membership of the European Union. And while Emmanuel Macron proposed, on June 1, during the second summit of the European Political Community in Moldova, to open accession negotiations from the end of the year for Ukraine and Moldova, the Georgian President wishes that his country, more than ever turned towards Europe, will not be forgotten. Interview.
L’Express: You have declared that you could obtain the status of candidate to the European Union by the end of the year. Do you really think this is possible?
Salome Zurabishvili: Yes, I think we have a real chance of getting it before the end of 2023. A year ago, Georgia’s bid was rejected. The Georgians were all the more disappointed as Georgia has made a lot of progress in recent years. But now we have a perspective, it’s very important.
Previously, those who opposed Georgia’s membership opposed us with the argument of geography. We were told that it was not possible, because Georgia was not a potentially European country. No one holds this discourse today. We must now ensure that the Black Sea becomes a “bridge” between Europe and Georgia, and no longer a border.
Yet, so far, the Georgian government has taken a rather pro-Russian trajectory [NDLR : En Géorgie, le Premier ministre et son gouvernement mènent la politique, tandis que la présidente n’a que peu de pouvoirs]. Opening of a Moscow-Tbilisi airline, law on “foreign agents” passed last March…
I do not like the qualification of “pro-Russian”. The government makes a lot of mistakes, but it is not pro-Russian. Simply, he allows himself to be manipulated by Russia because he is afraid of his own shadow and wants to win the next elections at all costs.
Is the slowness of the EU accession process likely to discourage the Georgian people?
Nothing will discourage the Georgian people, for two reasons. The first is that Georgia has always been turned towards Europe, to the point of sometimes considering itself more European than the Europeans! It’s part of the Georgian culture. The second is that there is no alternative. The only ones who have never invaded us and have always helped us are the Europeans.
Since the 2008 war – and in fact since 1992 – Russia has occupied South Ossetia and Abkhazia, as it has done since 2014 with Ukrainian Donbass. The objective: to influence the Georgian population to divert it from its European choice. Except that these maneuvers only accelerated the process, which the Russians do not understand, just as they did not understand that their war in Ukraine was going to accelerate the accession of certain countries. [Suède, Finlande] to NATO, instead of frightening them…
Are you bitter to see Westerners losing interest in the situation in Georgia?
They don’t have time to deal with Georgia and that’s completely understandable. Between Ukraine, China and Iran, there are hotter topics. But the Europeans are not losing interest in our country for all that. They have understood that Russia is only waiting for one thing, that is for Europe and the United States to turn away from this zone to find a lever in the Caucasus.
During your speech to the European Parliament on Wednesday 31 May, you spoke of “polarization” in Georgia. What are you referring to?
More than 80% of Georgians are pro-European. But this category is not homogeneous. They are divided into parties, swear allegiance to this or that leader… The political landscape is very fragmented. As for the remaining 20%, if they are not pro-European, they are not pro-Russian, this is a point on which I am categorical. I refuse to present the Georgian people as a population that would be divided on the subject of Russia.
Whether the Russian army wins or loses the war in Ukraine, do you think you are Moscow’s next target?
No, because the Russian army has already lost in Ukraine! Vladimir Putin has changed military commanders five times. He can no longer mobilize. Although it has big means, it is the stampede in the Russian army. In fact, I don’t believe that Russia is trying to regain on Georgian ground what it will have lost in Ukraine, because the situation has deteriorated so much that it will not allow them to go elsewhere. They can no longer afford it.
The title of president confers less political power than that of prime minister in Georgia. Following your frequent political disagreements, would you say that you are under pressure from the government?
They try. But to exert pressure, they would have to be able to take something away from me! Now, I don’t have much real power. I have the floor, and they can’t take that away from me. I have the legitimacy of the elections. I have a population which, knowing that I am resolutely pro-European, is more and more behind me. That is my strength and it will be my strength until the end of my mandate, in a year and a half.
A year and a half after the start of the Ukrainian conflict, how do you see the situation evolving?
It’s tragic for the Ukrainian people, given the country’s losses and destruction, but it’s a victory. Today we await the Ukrainian counter-offensive. Volodymyr Zelensky had a faultless run. He is where he should be. He always has the right messages. And he gets what nobody thought he could get. You just have to see what he got from the Germans, the French and the new Italian government, it’s extraordinary! I have a lot of admiration for Ukrainians. And this is the case for the entire Georgian population. If you come to Tbilisi, you will see Ukrainian flags on all the walls.
If Russia loses the war in Ukraine, do you plan, one way or another, to recover Abkhazia, territory occupied by Russia since 1992?
I hate that word “recover”. We won’t get anything back. On the other hand, when there are peace negotiations between the Russians and the Ukrainians, and there will necessarily be some at some point, Ukraine will necessarily defend its territorial integrity. All the countries that have supported it so far should be behind it. But I go further. If Russia is not forced, at the end of these negotiations, to give up the territories it occupies in Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine, it will start again in five, ten or fifteen years. I therefore hope that there will be no more occupation and Russian borders that are real borders. When the time is right, these changes will not be a choice, but an obligation.