Pascal Saint-Amans: “Tax aggressiveness has changed sides”

Pascal Saint Amans Tax aggressiveness has changed sides

In his spare time, the “silver fox” likes to surf the bubbling waves of the Basque coast. History of decompressing. “Silver Fox” is the nickname given to Pascal Saint-Amans by a tax lawyer from the Cayman Islands, annoyed by the Frenchman’s claws against the tax haven status of this Caribbean confetti. For fifteen years, Saint-Amans worked within the OECD to repair the waterways in the international tax system. A mandate given by the G20 in the aftermath of the great financial crisis of 2008. The end of Swiss banking secrecy, it is him; the end of baroque montages such as “the Irish double” and the “Dutch sandwich”, it is him. The minimum tax of 15% for multinationals, which will come into force in January 2024, is still him. Having put away his costume as a tax diplomat, he joined the Brunswick firm where he now advises global groups, opening their eyes to the reputational risks they take by flirting with the yellow line. In recent months, he has meticulously re-read his notes from hundreds of international summits, to recount how the war on escape was fought. This makes for an exciting book, Tax heavens (Threshold), where we meet Putin, Trump, Merkel and the young Elysée adviser Emmanuel Macron. Before jumping on a plane, he received L’Express in his Parisian lair with a breathtaking view of Notre-Dame cathedral, his black cat Manolito on his lap. Encounter.

“The Attal plan is going in the right direction, but…”

The political operation is sewn with white thread: to public opinion seduced by the idea of ​​taxing the “super-rich” or “super-profits”, the government replied “fight against tax evasion”. In the line of sight, the great fortunes and the multinationals. It looks serious that on May 9 Gabriel Attal presented his roadmap with, in particular, a 25% increase in tax audits on the largest estates, and a tax audit every two years for the 100 largest market capitalizations. For Pascal Saint-Amans, everything is good to take. “The Attal plan is going in the right direction, even if there is nothing revolutionary about it. Taxpayers should not be persecuted, while fighting against tax injustice. With this plan, the balance is somewhat restored. ” For this, Bercy has decided to dedicate 1,500 additional agents to the fight against tax evasion by 2027. A small gesture, after years of “human disinvestment”. How much can the French Treasury hope to recover from this great hunt? The estimates that are circulating make the big difference, from 30 to nearly 300 billion euros per year. “France is one of the few major countries not to make an assessment of what experts call the tax gap – in other words, the difference between what the State should collect and what it actually recovers. I I am therefore very cautious, but the amounts are by definition very large”, continues Saint-Amans. There remains the political signal, which also risks fueling the populist refrain that the rich are necessarily fraudsters. “Here again, it’s a question of balance. Today there is an unprecedented concentration of wealth, even if in France the level of inequality is lower than what we know elsewhere. The tax evasion of those who have benefited the most from globalization has become socially intolerable when, opposite, part of the population has been hit by deindustrialization. protect them”.

“Multinationals have finally understood that tax aggressiveness has changed sides”

For a long time, multinationals have been swimming in denial. “They had all bought off the shelf the same schemes, aggressive but legal, by which profits evaporate from the countries where they are made for more lenient tax heavens”, explains Saint-Amans. Although imperfect, the BEPS regulation (base erosion and profit shifting) simmered from 2012 has set the record straight: it aims to force companies to locate profits where their real economic activities take place, and not just where legal contracts affect them. With the automatic exchange of information between the tax authorities of different countries, fraud becomes more difficult… And above all much more costly. So, have these multinationals really changed their behavior? “Yes, they are doing it. They have understood that aggressive taxing has changed sides. That is why they are complaining so much today. In a way, I understand, because the rules have become so complex… Like a return of the pendulum after the decades of impunity from which they have benefited.” Still, public opinion does not yet perceive these advances. “We are going through a serious crisis of confidence in all our institutions, which is reflected in populism and the rejection of those in power. However, this rejection is accompanied by a form of disbelief for anything that looks like good news. ” The great concern of Saint-Amans: that the current geopolitical fragmentation will shatter the international agreements obtained after hard struggle: “We can clearly see that Russia, which was very open on tax cooperation, is now out of the game. China is still there, but tax havens are in ambush to seep into the cracks of international divisions.”

“Tax competition is the Achilles’ heel of European construction”

While in Brussels Europeans are still struggling over the redefinition of budgetary rules or the response to be given to Joe Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act, the tax subject is the bone of contention of the Twenty-Seven. With on the one hand a unanimous voting rule on these subjects, and on the other the sovereignty of each State when it comes to taxes. Result, a devastating tax competition with small countries like Ireland, Luxembourg or Hungary looking like tax havens. There is a manufacturing defect in the European Union, and it is very difficult to solve, says Pascal Saint-Amans. Consent to taxation and taxation are at the heart of sovereignty, a major notion today. However, citizens are not prepared to delegate this right to the European Parliament. The rule of unanimity in the vote amounts to giving the key to the house to the countries with the lowest tax rates. We partially resolve this knot with the global minimum tax, but that does not allow a positive construction of the European Union.” The only progress of recent years, the carbon border adjustment mechanism, a kind of carbon tax that will s apply this year to companies exporting to European territory.

“Let’s create a carbon tax on the shipping giants”

For those who have brought tax havens to heel, the next project is just as Herculean: inventing new tax policies to deal with climate change. “It will take a good ten years”, confesses Pascal Saint-Amans. Emmanuel Macron, he already imagines himself as the great authorizing officer of this new world fiscal order. At the end of June, in Paris, France organizes the summit for a new global financial pact (New Global Financial Pact), an international conference where the countries of the North and the South will work on the new financial means to be found to help the poorest countries. and the first affected by global warming. A sort of Marshall Plan for the climate. Saint-Amans, who advises both the Elysée and Mia Mottley, the Prime Minister of Barbados – one of the most involved women politicians in the world on the subject – intends to bring her stone to the building. His idea ? “Introduce a tax on the carbon emissions of maritime transport companies. Fuel oil for ships is not taxed, and this sector is extremely profitable. We could recover 100 billion dollars a year.” There is no doubt that the new French giant of the seas, CMA CGM, is already preparing its response.

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