How to explain, on the one hand, the competitiveness and success of Chinese companies (Huawei, Alibaba or Tencent) and, on the other, the difficulty of Westerners to establish themselves in the Middle Kingdom, as shown by the failures of Amazon and Carrefour? For Sandrine Zerbib and Aldo Spaanjaars, the answer to this question is partly explained by a specifically Asian form of management that they describe in Dragon tactics, the tactics of Chinese entrepreneurs to better lead in uncertainty (Ed. Dunod). The authors know the country well: the second was CEO of Lacoste-China when the first successfully launched the Adidas subsidiary there. From Shanghai, where she now runs an e-commerce company, Sandrine Zerbib gave us an interview.
L’Express: In your opinion, what is the fundamental difference between “Chinese-style” management and Western management?
Sandrine Zerbib : If I had to give only one, I would say that it is the enhancement of observation skills. In China, someone with genius doesn’t have great ideas or think “good”, but above all has a great sense of observation. Thanks to this ability, he will know how to seize opportunities very early on. For example, in fashion companies, you need both an ability to understand what the Chinese customer who is absolutely unique wants and an ability to perceive the microtrends that are emerging. Today’s consumers have nothing to do with those of yesterday who took what they were given under the pretext that it was very trendy (top down). Now, they impose their tastes much more on brands and no longer accept diktats. So there is the obligation to offer them what they want when they want it, which can change all the time. So you have to be constantly on the lookout.
How does the enhancement of this ability to observe translate into the way management is organised?
For example, at the level of senior management’s relationship with the teams, where the chain of command can easily be “broken”: if there is an emergency, a meeting is set up between the big boss, the intermediaries and the field agents with the objective of finding practical solutions. Nothing to do with Western brainstorming where you have to look for a new idea, a new product. There, it is a question of being pragmatic: one has a problem, it is necessary to understand it perfectly in order to react immediately. These are not brainstorms that are planned a month in advance but that are needed overnight.
You talk a lot about Chinese agility. However, there is a paradox between the fact that management is very centralized and at the same time very agile.
There is in China, and in Asia in general, a sense of hierarchy and respect for the leader that no longer exists in this way in the West. The management is not necessarily very centralized, but the boss will decide a lot of things by working a lot to be aware of everything. If there was a company comparable in its operation with us, I would cite the French luxury group LVMH. I know that his boss, Bernard Arnault, pays regular visits to stores, despite his age, his fortune and the size of his empire. This way of doing things is typical of the Chinese leader, who will want, from time to time, to interfere in micro-decisions. But on the contrary, he will leave his teams relatively autonomous. Young people in the West often want to set up their own business because they can no longer bear traditional shackles. This is done less in China, for the good reason that the most modern companies will allow a very entrepreneurial attitude within the entity itself. In the book, we cite the example of Haidilao, a chain of restaurants or Yonghui, a chain of supermarkets, where local managers are left to make a lot of decisions, even to compete with each other.
Is this rivalry even encouraged?
It took me a long time to understand this mentality, within a company where real internal competition and individual commitment are organised. A manager can be in his role but that will not prevent him from having a drink in the evening with his colleagues in all friendship. We are in a society where social roles are enormously important but do not involve the whole individual. I was surprised when I arrived in China to find myself at negotiation tables with very tough people during the discussion but with whom I was going to dine, drink and sing karaoke. We can then hope that the exchanges will be easier. And then no, the next morning, they put the mask back on because they make allowances, taking into account the different facets of the same person.
You talk a lot about “wolf culture” in the book. How would you sum up its main features?
She is distinguished by an aggressiveness, a kind of propensity for the offensive, with the desire to be in the attack all the time. But things have evolved in depth lately because the younger generations are less accepting of it. Working fifteen or sixteen hours a day, putting a mattress in the office and not going home, etc., all this is no longer possible. On the other hand, remain in the culture of the wolf at least three other elements. There is flair: we come back to this capacity for observation that I was describing to you. Then the dedication to the collective, to the group, which is a characteristic – beyond China – that really differentiates Asian cultures from Western cultures. And loyalty to the boss, the leader of the pack.
What does the Western manager have to learn from his Chinese counterpart?
First, to significantly increase and enhance observation skills. In the field, but also vis-à-vis the consumer and the markets. Then, be a little less in imposing concepts that come from the top. This generates ways of producing, ways of working with teams, ways of breaking command chains that are quite different from ours. But the culture of the wolf is very difficult to import as a whole because many aspects are anchored in deep education, in particular the sense of the collective, the devotion to the leader. Finally, reintroduce the spirit of entrepreneurship and be flexible, bearing in mind that a schedule is constantly being called into question and that there is no one-year objective. By being able to react at all times and by being in internal communication to adapt and develop this flexibility which is the strength of Chinese companies. We must not reject their practices on the pretext that we do not have the same culture but know how to draw inspiration from it.