It is a strategic appointment, at the center of all attention. This Wednesday, July 20, Laurent Nuñez was appointed to the Council of Ministers prefect of police of Paris. Current national coordinator of intelligence and the fight against terrorism (CNRLT), former secretary of state to the Minister of the Interior Christophe Castaner, the man knows the house well for having been chief of staff to the prefect of police Bernard Boucault between 2012 and 2015. He now succeeds the much criticized Didier Lallement, whose methods and management of public order have sparked controversy since his arrival in 2019, at the heart of the yellow vests crisis.
Doctrine of “contact” where the police must “impact” the demonstrators, strong verbal outings… The “style” Lallement raised questions, sometimes even internally. It remains to be seen whether his successor will take a similar path, or break with him. Interview with Mathieu Zagrodzki, associate researcher at CESDIP, specializing in internal security and the police, author of What does the police ? The role of the police in society (Ed. of Dawn).
L’Express: Will the replacement of Didier Lallement by Laurent Nuñez mark a major change in the doctrine of maintaining order, in your opinion?
Matthew Zagrodzki: Prefect Lallement was appointed when Mr. Nuñez was Secretary of State. There was no change of government, and we had an interior minister who maintained his confidence in him for two years. His departure is not linked to the events at the Stade de France, and we are not in a moment of crisis either where the prefect of police is ejected to serve as a fuse. All of this goes to say that there won’t really be any change in policing doctrine, because the latter is above all determined by politics. Police and gendarmerie officials may advocate a particular approach on specific issues, but the decision is always up to the incumbent executive.
Let us recall the context of the appointment of Didier Lallement: we are at the beginning of the year 2019. The prefect is appointed by an executive who intends to toughen the maintenance of order, thinking that certain violence, in particular having taken place within the framework demonstrations of yellow vests, are no longer tolerable. That you have to use the strong way. From this, we can make two assumptions. The first: we are talking about the same executive, therefore the same policy, and nothing will change. The second: the criticisms have been harsh, the controversies have accumulated. There is therefore perhaps a desire to refocus to put someone different in place, more “round”.
There is, therefore, a difference between the two men.
Absolutely. The Nuñez style is very different from that of the prefect Lallement. The Lallement style is a relationship with institutions – especially those of the city of Paris – which is very brittle. Laurent Nuñez, on the other hand, left good memories of his time at the police headquarters. His profile was appreciated, which may lead to think that the reports may be less harsh.
But that does not mean that practices that have been pointed out under the prefect Lallement will fundamentally change. Take the use of tear gas on protesters. This practice depends above all on the training of thousands of agents, which does not change overnight. Then, it should be remembered that the recent doctrine of the maintenance of order did not begin with the prefect Lallement, but began much earlier in the 2010s. Since the demonstrations against the Labor law in 2016, we have put BAC police officers, in particular, security company police officers, who are people who usually go on patrol, go to top demonstrators, thugs, inside processions, with the collateral effects that entails. Until then, historical French doctrine was above all one of dispersal, of maintaining a distance during demonstrations. From now on, the police are more in contact, and are more in the questioning and the judicialization.
Would you say there was a before or after Stade de France?
It is far too early to tell. Afterwards, one could wonder if there was a before / after the Michel Zecler affair (born after accusations of police violence against the rap producer of the same name). Was this case a huge turning point? Not really actually. There have been a few changes or a few attempts at change, but it hasn’t been a break. Prefect Lallement did not leave after this affair, just as he did not leave after the Stade de France either. In this case, his departure was a process started before, when he has been there for three years – a normal longevity for a police chief – and he is close to retirement.
Can we say, in this case, that there will be a before and after Didier Lallement?
There will clearly be a before and an after Lallement concerning the media visibility and the controversies generated by a police chief. If you ask Parisians and the French in general who was the prefect of police before him, we bet that many would be unable to name him – Michel Delpuech, in this case. Ten years ago, no one could have told you either that his name was Bernard Boucault, or that his successor was going to be Michel Cadot. Apart from the prefect Philippe Massoni, known for his closeness to the Chiraquian power, we have rarely known a media prefect during the last forty or fifty years. Usually, the prefect of police is rather a discreet servant of the state. With Didier Lallement, the brand is there. Especially since he stood out with very specific outings. Like the one where, approached by a yellow vest demonstrator in a courteous way, he replied “We are not on the same side Madam”. The hardening of the speech corresponds to that of the actions.
Because apart from that, the imprint of Didier Lallement is part of that of fairly harsh methods. The arrival of the BRAV-M, motorized violent action repression brigades, dedicated to being mobile when maintaining order, is a symbol of this. They were designed to meet a need: to maintain order in a very congested city, during demonstrations, such as those of the yellow vests, where there are not really processions, but rather small groups in dispersed order. They are still seen patrolling outside protests today, in a uniform – head-to-toe black outfit, cap and balaclava – quite intimidating.
You mention the media side of Didier Lallement. But Laurent Nuñez, who has already been in government in the past, is he not also in the same situation?
As there is a before-after Lallement, there is also a before-after Nuñez. This is the first time, to my knowledge, that a former member of the government has become a prefect of police. It is something very unusual to see someone from the executive taking on these functions. This shows two things: the importance of the position, first, which is one of the most prestigious in the Republic. It’s clearly not a demotion for him. Then, the attention paid by the government to the personality of the prefect of police. Didier Lallement received a lot of negative media coverage. Here, we seek to put a personality who is generally appreciated in the ranks of the senior public service, and whose competence is recognized everywhere.