Ten years ago, on January 9, 2015, two days after the attack against Charlie Hebdofour people were killed by a terrorist at the Hyper Cacher at Porte de Vincennes, in Paris. A convenience store employee, Lassana Bathily, a Malian of Muslim faith, allowed the police to put an end to the hostage-taking. Ten years later, Lassana Bathily is, this morning, the great international guest of RFI.
RFI: Hello, Lassana Bathily. Here we are ten years after the hostage taking at the Hyper Cacher at Porte de Vincennes, in Paris. How are you preparing to experience this moment, this anniversary day?
Lassana Bathily: This moment will make me relive it again, like ten years ago. Well, it’s going to be a little difficult, because it’s going to remind us again of what we experienced during the hostage-taking.
Ten years later, are you still haunted, consumed by what happened on January 9, 2015?
Yes. I remember very well what happened on January 9, 2015, until today. It still comes back to me ten years later, it still comes back to me. As they say: it’s a scar that remains. It’s impossible to forget. Impossible.
This January 9, 2015, France is still in shock from the attack against Charlie Hebdowhen a heavily armed man breaks into a kosher convenience store. Amedy Coulibaly immediately kills three people. He takes seventeen others hostage. At that time, you are an employee of this store, of Hyper Cacher. You are in the basement. You put away boxes. What did you think in the first minutes of this hostage situation?
Hostage-taking… As I always said, at the beginning, I thought it was an accident.
Have you thought about a car accident on the ring road nearby?
Exactly. I didn’t think it was actually happening in the store. It was later, when the shooting repeated several times, that I saw all the customers coming down to join me. That’s when I started to understand that this was really happening in the store.
Yes, because indeed, you see some customers who go down to the basement where you are and who tell you that terrorists have entered the store.
Exactly, it was a shock. At this time, there were more than twenty people hustling to rush down. It’s an impossible shock. When I saw these people, I started asking the question: “What is happening? » They were the ones who confirmed to me that the shootings really happened in the store.
And at that time, you will shelter people in the cold room.
At that time the cold room was open, the door was open. We all went into the cold room. I even held the door inside to protect us.
After a few minutes, you suggest to the customers who are there to leave, to take the freight elevator to try to escape from the store. Is that it?
Yes. Afterwards, they didn’t want to, they said: ” We are going to put our lives in danger. » Well, I made them understand that our lives are already in danger and that we must try something. They didn’t want to follow me in the end. I turned off the engines and asked everyone to put their phones on silent. And that’s when I decided to take the freight elevator.
You let customers who don’t want to take a chance with you. You go up by the freight elevator. What motivates you to act? What made you leave at that time?
At that moment […] I know the store well. I say to myself: why not try something? Well, the terrorist, he is there, he is armed. We are not armed.
And when you went out, Lassana Bathily, the police arrested you immediately, since they surrounded the store and they believed for quite a long time, for an hour and a half, that you were one of the terrorists?
Yes, to make the police understand, it took a lot of time, because they had no information about me. When I came out, I ran towards them. It’s true that they thought I had explosives on me. So, before identifying myself, it still took a lot of time. It’s true that I was mistreated at the beginning, because they caught me like a terrorist…
They believed that you were an accomplice of Amedy Coulibaly?
So. I was searched and handcuffed for more than an hour and a half, while I was identified.
You obviously tell them that you work in the store and you give them a map of the store. And this is what will allow the RAID police officers to organize and launch the assault.
Yes, when they found out I wasn’t a terrorist, they asked me to help design the store […] They had an exchange with one of the customers in the store to ask where they were located.
And that’s when you’re almost immediately considered a hero. Because you made the plan, you were able to help the police intervene.
Yes, that’s it. That was my role on the day of the attack.
You keep saying that you don’t consider yourself a hero. For what ?
I’m not a hero. I’m just a good, good simple citizen who reacted at the right time. There you go, just a good citizen.
But you actually become a national hero that day. How did you experience that moment and the days that followed? You found yourself in an incredible whirlwind.
It was difficult. After the attacks, it was very difficult, because I gave my first interview the day of the attacks around 3:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m…. And the next day, I see my face everywhere, on the news, in the newspapers. Everyone is talking about me. People are starting to criticize me too: “ Why did you show your face? You shouldn’t show your face. » I said what I experienced in the store, I didn’t invent anything. Well, it’s true that it was difficult, I wasn’t prepared for something that happened suddenly like that. It really overwhelmed me.
Yes, it passed you by, because you become a hero and all the media are behind you and they want to interview you. You are then presented as a Malian Muslim who saved French people of Jewish faith. It is a symbol which also reassures in this France traumatized by the attacks.
Yes, because a Muslim who works with Jews, who saved Jews, has become something strong, symbolic. Nobody expected that. I have always said that the Jews are my brothers. I worked with them for years. We didn’t have a problem with religion in the store and yet I practiced my religion in the store. I said my prayers and Ramadan. I say that I have saved human beings, I have saved human beings… whether they are Jews, atheists or of other beliefs. We are all human beings. We must help each other when we need it.
And the whirlwind continues. Because eleven days after the events, you were naturalized French for an act of bravery… unexpected recognition, ceremony with the ministers of the time. The whirlwind continues.
Yes, these were the thanks of the Republic for what I did at the Hyper Cacher […] And I thank again the former government of François Hollande.
On that day, the day of your naturalization, January 20, 2015, you say at the end of the few words you are going to say: “Long live freedom, long live friendship, long live solidarity, long live France!” »
Yes, that’s it, we all must be united in these moments and be proud, especially proud to be French. Me, as I have always said, I felt French even before having obtained the French card.
Have you returned to a normal life today? You told us at the start of this interview that, ten years later, inevitably, it brings back memories. But today, are you living normally, if I may say so?
Yes, I have a normal life. It’s true that the memories remain, but still, I have my activity, I work, I play sports.
You are employed at the Paris town hall today, I point out.
Yes, I am an employee of Paris town hall. Event service. That’s it, I really took on a normal life. For now, everything is fine.
At the time, ten years ago, you dreamed of being an ambassador for the Brotherhood. From your point of view, have you succeeded in becoming this ambassador?
No, I can say no, I didn’t achieve that. But still, I have done quite a few interventions, whether in schools, in neighborhoods […]
We bring you to schools, colleges, high schools, to speak, to tell your story.
To tell my story, to tell how we can continue to live together […] I continue my interventions. But being an ambassador, I haven’t yet succeeded.
When you return to Mali, at home, in the Kayes region where you come from, do we tell you about this day, this January 9, 2015?
At the beginning, people talked to me a lot about it… But when I go there, it’s a vacation to enjoy family and friends. Maybe people from neighboring villages, when they see me, they are impressed […] But in my village, we moved on. People don’t talk to me about it much.
Then, you are the village child, you are quite simply Lassana…
Yes, I am Lassana. The Lassana of before, the Lassana of today. Always the same.