How can we remain optimistic in a world where crises and violence are increasing? This is the question that the speakers at the World in Progress conference, organized from October 14 to 15 by the group Prisa (the daily El Paísradio Cadena Ser…) in Barcelona. After once again condemning the comments of his Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu calling for a withdrawal of UN troops deployed in Lebanon (UNIFIL) – while at least five peacekeepers were injured on the sidelines of the fighting between Israel and the Hezbollah – and called to “immediately suspend arms deliveries” to the Hebrew state, Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez, one of the harshest European leaders against Tel Aviv, also distinguished himself on the subject of immigration.
In a context where most countries on the Old Continent are hardening their positions, he pleaded for his country to remain “open and welcoming”. “We, the Spaniards, are children of immigration. We are not going to be the parents of xenophobia,” he had told MPs a few days earlier, arguing that the “contribution” of migrants “should be maintained in the decades to come”, to “overcome [le] demographic challenge and guarantee the prosperity and progress of [la] Company.”
The question was more relevant than ever, the same day when the government of Giorgia Meloni sent a first group of migrants to the centers managed by this country in Albania to outsource asylum requests, and where the president of the European Commission , Ursula von der Leyen, responding to the request of several Member States, announced in a letter to the 27 that she was going to propose new legislation to encourage the expulsions of irregular migrants. Former Italian centrist Prime Minister Matteo Renzi (2014-2016), who also spoke, denounced the attitude of “many politicians who do not think about giving a vision of the future to the new generations”, but only about “their “likes of the day” on social networks. In an interview given to some French media, including L’Express, the man who is now a senator criticizes Giorgia Meloni’s manipulation of her migration policy.
L’Express: What do you think of the French budgetary situation? Does she worry you?
Matteo Renzi: I am of course above all an expert on Italian budgetary problems, an area in which I have some experience… It will be very important to see what will happen in the National Assembly in France in the coming weeks and the next few months. The situation is not easy.
I believe that the new French government will be able to find ways out of the crisis, at least I hope so. Because what is good for France is also good for Italy, for Germany and for Europe in general. With the reality of the new world order, there is no other option than to move forward together. Germany’s economic difficulties, for example, are having repercussions on the north-east of Italy.
On immigration, is the policy of Giorgia Meloni, who prides herself on having significantly reduced the arrivals of migrants this year, influencing European policy?
Giorgia Meloni will spend 900 million euros to open a migration center [NDLR : 160 millions d’euros par an sur 5 ans] in Albania. This is truly the stupidest decision ever. It only aims to create a calibrated message for Twitter or Instagram to say that it has done something to put an end to the migration issue. This expenditure is completely disproportionate and ineffective. This budget should be better allocated to the Italian police.
We must also take into account the question of security, which the left must also support: those who come to Italy must respect the laws. We must be tough on criminals and against the causes of crime. It was with this message that Labor Tony Blair won the election 25 years ago. And this message is not yet clear to the left.
But, on the other hand, we must invest in culture and it would be crazy to consider immigration as a replacement and to promote its blocking. Because there is no doubt that we will need more migrants in the next decade. Furthermore, in my opinion, the problem of emigration is more serious than that of immigration. The problem is young people who go to the United States to research centers on quantum computing or artificial intelligence.
The subject of migratory immigration is an important issue, which requires more in-depth reflection. Behind all this there is a demographic problem. The birth rate is collapsing in Italy. To fix it, different policies must be put in place: to improve the condition of women, the balance between work and private life, youth employment. Today, Italy is the oldest country in Europe. Without young people, we will have difficulty surviving. In reality, the real problem is not the democratic crisis, but the demographic crisis.
Doesn’t the breakthrough of the far right in Europe show people’s concern?
Many leaders have won elections by stirring up this fear of migrants. But if you talk to Italian (or German) entrepreneurs, the vast majority are right-wing, and at the same time, they need more migrants to fill the jobs. Today, the migration issue has become a subject for social networks. But that is not how we will handle the issue.
The populists have clear answers to complicated questions: to hear them, it’s easy, you just have to put the migrants out. They only consider problems day by day. But in ten years, they will be the first to ask for more migrants. I sometimes joke that Matteo Salvini [NDLR : le patron de la Ligue, d’extrême droite, et actuel vice-président du conseil des ministres] will in the future be part of an NGO to welcome them.
Faced with Europe’s difficulties facing the United States and China, how can Europe exist in the future?
Europe today is not the most important place in the world. It has lost the desire to be a place for innovation. In the world, the United States innovates, China copies and… Europe regulates. Ursula von der Leyen’s decision to support the Green Deal out of ideology during her first term was, for example, a mistake.
We cannot be competitive with China and the United States. We have to do something to create a European automotive champion, otherwise we will have no chance. For example, I am not against a merger between Renault and Stellantis.
If Donald Trump comes to power, what will Europeans have to do to support Ukraine?
The only thing I know is that Donald Trump is unpredictable: it is therefore impossible to guess what will happen, neither in the coming weeks, nor tomorrow if he comes to power. We must support Ukraine. And integrate it into the European Union. This will cause problems, particularly with farmers, in France or Italy, but it is the right thing to do.
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