The day after a support conference for Ukraine in Paris, Tuesday December 13, which made it possible to bring together more than a billion euros in international aid, German Galushchenko, the Ukrainian Minister of Energy, explains to L’Express the needs of his country, which since October 10 has suffered massive strikes on its energy infrastructure, depriving millions of people of electricity, heating and water. And shares his concerns about the safety of the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant, occupied by the Russians. Interview with one of the key figures in the Ukrainian government since the beginning of the conflict.
L’Express: The Russians continue to ruthlessly shell Ukrainian energy infrastructure: what is the extent of the destruction?
German Galushchenko: Unfortunately, they continue to increase. The strikes against our energy system are daily and very intensive. The Russians have been launching massive attacks since October 10 – between 70 and 100 missiles at the same time – and, the rest of the time, they use drones and artillery. In October, around 30% of the energy infrastructure was destroyed, but now we estimate that half has been damaged or demolished.
At the beginning of the war, the Russians did not hit these infrastructures massively because they thought they would quickly conquer Ukraine, and therefore need these installations afterwards. Their willingness now to destroy them shows that they know they will never take over Ukraine.
What exactly are the Russians targeting?
They target production sites, especially thermal power plants, which produce electricity using coal, coal or gas – they have all been attacked. But the Russians are also attacking transformer stations, which distribute electricity throughout Ukraine, from one region to another; as well as heating installations in cities like Kharkiv or kyiv.
All this also has an impact on the production of nuclear energy. It happened that all the nuclear power stations were stopped at the same time, because their supply of electricity had been cut off. Diesel-powered electricity generators then take over, but this means that the nuclear power plant does not receive the electricity it needs, which poses serious security problems.
How many people are without electricity in Ukraine?
These numbers change after each attack, every hour. But after the massive attacks in November, more than 10 million people lost power at the same time. All this also has an impact on the supply of water and heating. But also on the activity of companies, whose electricity consumption had to be restricted.
How would you describe the living conditions of the population, while temperatures have dropped below 0°C?
The population is of course suffering enormously. Many live for hours without electricity, some for several days. But people also had a wonderful attitude: we asked them to voluntarily restrict their consumption during peak hours, and they did. On the government side, after each attack, we communicate precisely to the population the extent of the destruction and the consequences in terms of energy supply. We also try to repair the damage as quickly as possible, as best we can.
And then there is the crucial question of heating. Not having electricity in summer or in winter is not the same thing. And that is why the Russians have chosen the current period to intensify their strikes.
How do you react when you hear Westerners complaining about their rising electricity and gas bills?
I really think they should come and see with their own eyes what we are going through on a daily basis in Ukraine, to understand. Besides, those higher bills, they’re also the price of freedom, right? Everyone now understands that this dependence of Europe on Russia was very dangerous.
Ukraine is immersed in a war that is killing thousands, and we are talking about electricity bills? Some voices ask, “Why should we pay more?” : this is exactly the kind of discourse that the Russians seek to amplify. Moscow has only one goal: to divide European unity. And this, to try to end the sanctions against Russia. I remember having very tough discussions with my German counterpart at the time, about the construction of the Nordstream 2 gas pipeline. He was trying to persuade me that this project had nothing to do with politics, that it was not was only economical. Really ? How can we believe that? Obviously, Putin would have gained influence with this project and that he intended to use it later to obtain compensation. Since then, everyone has recognized that creating a huge dependency on Russia was a huge mistake.
How are repairs carried out in such a difficult context?
It is first of all very important for us to collect all the information on the destructions. They will serve as evidence of war crimes committed by the Russians, once the conflict is over: we are working on this subject in close collaboration with the prosecutor’s office. This information may also be used in civil proceedings for damages or international arbitration. We are also trying to assess the cost of reparations, in order to define our needs in terms of international aid (which will amount to several hundred billion euros).
In the case of the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant, it is not only necessary to assess the extent of the destruction, but also the value of the electricity that was not produced. And we’re talking about six units that together produce over 6,000 megawatts of electricity. So it’s a huge sum.
What kind of hardware do you need the most?
We need more high voltage equipment and transformers. We are in daily coordination with our partners on this subject: we provide them with the list of equipment we need. We have already received many. What is important is not only to repair, but also to have stocks of equipment, in anticipation of new attacks.
Some transformers were completely destroyed. We try to fix them when we can; when this is not possible, they must be replaced. But it takes between six months and a year to produce this type of equipment. But we absolutely need it now. This is why we are very keen on equipment, even second-hand.
Who are the donor countries?
We have created a kind of consultative body in our ministry, with the energy ministers of about twenty key countries (including the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Poland, Lithuania, Sweden, Finland, Japan…) and international organizations such as the International Energy Agency. This body ensures day-to-day technical coordination with our foreign partners. We update equipment requirements after each bombardment.
Did you receive enough generators?
We have already received many from many countries. They are crucial in some cases to have heating or to maintain critical activities, such as hospitals, or certain productions, such as bread. We have identified a certain number of critical infrastructures, which receive priority support, notably via generators. And when we put restrictions in place, we also reserve for these infrastructures the amount of electricity they need.
How do you see the situation developing in the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant, which has been occupied by the Russians since March?
It’s necessary to be able to demilitarize this plant – we are in the process of discussing a perimeter of neutrality with the Russians, under the aegis of the International Energy Agency. But, being neutral also means that the Russian army must leave, which does not seem to be taking shape… Secondly, we must ensure that this site can once again produce electricity for the Ukrainian network. Which hasn’t been the case since September.
What is at stake is nuclear safety. This goes far beyond relations between Ukraine and Russia: it is an increasingly urgent question for Europe and for the world. We must put pressure on the Russians to leave the plant, and France, a leading nuclear country, can play a leading role in this area. It is impossible to turn a blind eye to what is happening there: the situation is dramatic.
Is the situation still under control?
I’m worried. What’s been going on there, in Europe’s largest plant, since the Russians took over, is sheer madness. On all the plans. They made strikes on the plant, and now they have installed two Grad rocket launchers inside the site, which are firing at the Nikopol area. Anything can happen: starting with an accidental explosion. But they don’t care. Imagine the situation of the personnel responsible for the security and operation of the plant, captured since March. They live in the middle of this madness. They are under enormous moral and even physical pressure every day. We are in contact with them, they are exhausted.
When I think of the progress humanity has made in nuclear protection. We were prepared for any type of accident, but natural accidents, not accidents created on purpose by humans. Nobody could imagine that human beings would one day play like this with nuclear security. But the Russians did…
The plant has already experienced several power outages, because the Russians repeatedly destroyed the lines that connect it to the Ukrainian electricity system. Fortunately, diesel generators have taken over to cool the reactors. The plant was reconnected to the network each time, but what is hard to believe is that the Russians continue to play with the security of the site by causing “blackouts”.
Prior to the strikes, Ukraine stood out for the resilience of its electricity grid…
When the war started on February 24, we had already been disconnected from the Russian electricity system for a few hours for a test phase, which had been scheduled before the outbreak of the conflict. It was a very difficult decision to make, but history has proven us right. After three days we were supposed to log back in, but we never did. We remained isolated for twenty-one days before successfully connecting to the European network, a highly technical operation, and all this in the midst of war. It was a real victory for the country. Imagine if we had remained dependent on Moscow…
We even exported electricity to Europe from July until October 11, the day after the first massive bombing of our energy infrastructure. The fact that we supplied electricity to Europe, making it de facto less dependent on the Russians, did not please the latter at all. I hope that soon the Zaporizhia power plant will be connected to the Ukrainian network again, and that we will be able to start exporting electricity again.
How do you see the coming months?
I don’t expect the Russians to stop, when I hear Putin’s statements deeming the bombings “inevitable”, as if they were normal acts of war. Yet it is obvious that he is waging a war against civilians. They will carry out further attacks on our energy system. All winter long they’ll knock and we’ll fix, and so on…
The question of the effectiveness of our aerial protection system is fundamental. And here too, we need international aid to provide us with more modern devices. If we could intercept 90-95% of the missiles, the Russians would fail in their attempt to destroy our energy system.