Georgia: “The only way out of this crisis is the organization of new elections”

RFI: Salomé Zourabichvili had promised not to give up her mandate without the organization of new legislative elections. Finally, this morning, she left the Palace. At the same time, she promises to continue the fight. How do you interpret this short speech from the outgoing president?

Thorniké Gordadze: In the days preceding this day of December 29, she already made it clear that she was not going to fight to retain control of the presidential palace, therefore this physical place, to the opposition. And the whole of society also shares this opinion, that it was not necessary to escalate with the government, which was ready to use force and remove the president by force. So ultimately, the president declared that she would remain president and that this power resided in her person and in the popular legitimacy that she still has. And the induction of the new president by the Georgian Dream in a closed Parliament, behind closed doors, where only the members of the Georgian Dream were present accompanied by some personalities from the world of the Church, really contrasted with his speech in front of thousands of Georgians . And also in front of this human chain which was organized yesterday by tens of thousands of Georgians with European flags in the city of Tbilisi.

For two months now, these Georgians have been demonstrating in around forty cities, large and small, in this country of 3.7 million inhabitants to show that they do not agree with these falsified elections, with this Parliament and this illegitimate government which, moreover, broke the process of European integration – which since the independence of this country represented the number one geopolitical objective.

You mentioned the daily demonstrations. Salomé Zourabichvili herself had participated in these demonstrations, what do you think will happen now? What will this movement become? How will the standoff continue?

This movement will continue. People are aware that everything is long-term, everything is in the resilience of this movement. It is bearing fruit: there have been several small victories, notably the beginning of the erosion of the base of this power which resides in the control of the administration, the bureaucracy and the repressive apparatus. We saw a series of resignations, notably within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where six ambassadors and a deputy minister resigned. There were other resignations in other ministries, with letters and petitions signed by public sector employees. We recently saw a very senior officer in the Ministry of the Interior, in particular that of the department which deals precisely with anti-riot actions, flee abroad and publish interviews in which he denounces the use of the use of disproportionate force. Orders which come directly from Moscow according to him, according to the interview he gave to the newspaper BildGerman newspaper. It’s quite worrying, but we see that the legitimacy of this government is being reduced more and more and many Georgians are counting on pressure from outside.

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Knowing that the United States recently adopted sanctions against billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili. What could be the impact of these sanctions?

This is very important because, today, the international community – at least the democratic countries – do not recognize the new president nor the new government. They address them as they would address representatives of the Georgian Dream party. The Americans have adopted, through the Treasury Department, financial sanctions which are very harsh against the real boss of the country, the billionaire Ivanishvili. They also put the Interior Minister and his deputy on the Magnitsky list, which is a list that hits even harder those accused of massive human rights violations. These sanctions, with the popular actions in the streets and also the recent mobilization of the country’s business community, will mean that, we hope, the government will step back and accept the fact that the only way out of this crisis is the organization of new elections with a new electoral administration. Because the current electoral administration is completely controlled by the ruling party and they are the ones who organized this massive fraud.

And what do you think of the position of the European Union? We sense dissension within the EU. Are you waiting for a firmer, clearer position?

Obviously, we expect a lot from the European Union because the Georgia is a candidate country. If it were a country located on another continent, without any European perspective, we are used to seeing the passivity of the European Union. But this is a country which is a candidate for membership in the European Union. And the dissensions are mainly always the same. It is Viktor Orban’s Hungary, now accompanied by Fico’s Slovakia, which is blocking the sanctions against the Georgian leaders.

But member countries of the European Union take much more decisive sanctions on an individual level. The Baltic countries, Poland, announced that they would take sanctions. We can progress in this direction, that is to say individual decisions of member countries. But I do not exclude that in the next meetings of the Foreign Affairs Council in Brussels, but also in the meetings of the European Council, unanimous decisions will be taken with the resistance, perhaps, of Hungary. But we know that, in the end, when we put pressure on Viktor Orban, he agrees, in exchange for something, not to block the decisions of the 27.

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At the same time, Mikhail Kavelashvili was invested just now. A former footballer known for his ultra-conservative and also anti-Western positions, we have seen demonstrators in recent days demanding that he release his diplomas, in particular, and criticizing his lack of education. What attitude, in your opinion, will he adopt for his first steps as president, even if contested?

The problem is that not only does he not have any diploma, but also that Mr. Mikhail Kavelashvili is not a political figure. He was chosen, to the surprise of everyone, including representatives of the Georgian Dream, by billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili — who is once again the person who is really in charge of the country, completely informally. Bidzina Ivanishvili chose this person precisely for his qualities, or for his faults, because he does not want there to be another source of power than him in this country. Since he came to power, he has favored the deinstitutionalization of this country. And the Presidency of the Republic was the last institution that escaped him and he put the least qualified, or least adequate, person in this position to completely disqualify this institution from the governance of the country.

So unfortunately, these decisions do not interest the Georgians much, because ultimately it will be the steps, or the decisions, of Bidzina Ivanishvili that matter. Moreover, recently, when French President Emmanuel Macron tried to influence the situation a little, to see an end to the Georgian crisis, he spoke directly to this man who has no official function, and not to the Georgian Prime Minister who is not recognized because he was elected following a highly contested vote. So the country is informally governed by billionaire Ivanishvili and it is his decisions that matter.

You say that the protest movement will continue. Our special correspondent reported on air this morning that after Salomé Zourabichvili’s speech, the demonstrators quickly dispersed. They met again a little later. Was there an expectation of “instructions” from these demonstrators from a leader ? Will Salomé Zourabichvili remain this leading figure? Could there be others? Knowing that the government, we imagine, has every interest in seeing this run out of steam.

So having a leader has advantages, but also disadvantages. Yes, we need leaders who influence the mobilization a little, who have a plan. Until now, this has been done completely informally by groups that are created on social networks. But it’s actually quite effective. The disadvantage is that as soon as there is a very strongly identified leader, the authorities try to arrest him, to accuse him. First, he goes through the regime’s propaganda accusations and all the words — treason, being in the pay of foreigners, etc. —. Then they try everything to put that person behind bars. So until now, this movement has not run out of steam despite the absence of clearly identified leaders. Madame Zourabichvili is the institution, she embodies the institutions of the country. What is curious is that today, she is supported by people who did not vote for her. She was elected in 2018 by the Georgian Dream, which is the paradox of the situation.

She broke away from it.

The people who support her today are people who did not vote for her, but they support the institution because it is the last institution that was democratically elected.

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