After Brussels, London, Paris and Berlin, he met, this Monday, February 3 in Washington, the new American administration on Monday, February 3. On the sidelines of official Ukrainian diplomacy, Petro Poroshenko, president of Ukraine from 2014 to 2019, now a deputy and head of the European solidarity opposition party, wants to “strengthen the position of Ukraine in negotiations”, then That Donald Trump set “one hundred days” to his emissary, General Keith Kellogg, to put the belligerents around a table.
But at what price? “No compromise on security and our territorial integrity”, proclaims the former president. And what does he think of the idea of organizing elections this year, as General Kellogg suggested, February 1? Bad idea! Tonne Poroshenko. “There would be only one winner and his name is Putin, because he will have managed to break our unity.” Interview.
L’Express: Why did you organize this European tour?
Petro Poroshenko: Today, most of my activity consists, via my organization and my donations, to assist soldiers. Last week, for example, we delivered ten night drones, to 4,000 dollars play, to the special forces that captured North Korean soldiers, to reward them with this feat. But as a parliamentarian, I want to help strengthen the Ukrainian position in future negotiations. This is why I went to Warsaw to meet the Minister of Foreign Affairs, then to Brussels to speak, in particular, in Kaja Kallas [NDLR : Haute représentante de l’Union pour les Affaires étrangères et la sécurité] and to the European Defense Commissioner Andrius Kubilius. In Paris, then I met members of the government, the Parliament and the Senate Defense Commission. These meetings were fruitful. We have notably discussed the delivery of Mirage 5, which will take place this month, but also the initiative of the Netherlands, which consists in finishing the production of armaments directly on Ukrainian soil. This model is very promising.
Finally, we mentioned the new American administration in power. I believe that President Macron can help us – just like the president of the Italian council, Georgia Meloni – to strengthen our communication channel with the Trump team which, in my opinion, lack of substance.
This Monday, you are in Washington. What can we expect from Donald Trump on the Ukrainian subject?
I have known President Trump for a long time. I worked with him and I consider him a strong leader. He will not show any weakness in his relations with Putin. This is why I consider his coming to power as a “window of opportunities” for negotiations. Admittedly, it is narrow, but it exists. If he is supported by the member states of NATO and by Europe, he has a good chance of ending the war by force. Because that’s what it is about: having peace by force. Trump will not accept a weak scenario because a weak scenario would be a victory for Putin. Let us not forget that it was Trump who gave Ukraine, for the first time, lethal weapons. And it was also he who introduced the first sanctions against the Nordstream gas pipeline.
Can there be, in your opinion, a new Yalta, that is to say a negotiation between Trump and Putin, without Ukraine and the Europeans?
It would be a very great danger. Nothing should be decided on Ukraine without Ukraine. And nothing, either, on Europe without Europe. No bilateral negotiations should take place. Our strength is unity. During negotiations with Russia, as part of the Normandy format [NDLR : rencontres diplomatiques qui ont eu lieu pendant la première guerre du Donbass entre l’armée ukrainienne et les républiques séparatistes de Donetsk et Lougansk et qui rassemblait l’Ukraine, l’Allemagne, la France et la Russie]kyiv, Paris and Berlin agreed on a common position, and it was then presented to Vladimir Putin. We were blocking.
Putin only understands a language, that of force. We cannot go see Putin with a weak position. This is why we must not accept a bilateral “head to head” type negotiation between Trump and Putin. This is why, too, you have to make Ukraine stronger before negotiating, which involves a resumption of arms deliveries.
Regarding sanctions, should we strengthen them?
Putin should no longer be able to finance the war. To do this, we must tackle the Russian economy, which is overheating and is experiencing high inflation. If the economy flakes, Putin will be in danger and he knows. Three types of sanctions have shown their effectiveness: freezing of banking assets, disconnecting Russian banks from the global Swift financial system and sanctions against the ghost fleet, which allow to tackle exports of gas and oil. It works. For fear of sanctions, some Indian and Chinese companies are now turning away from Russia and seeking other suppliers, such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Iraq. Finally, let’s stop buying Russian liquefied natural gas! You must choose: buy Russian LNG which will finance the manufacture of missiles or buy Norwegian gas, more expensive, but which will deprive Putin important financial resources …
Do you know Putin, how to negotiate with him?
By refusing any blackmail from him. It should neither be feared nor trust him, because he has kept any of his commitments. I repeat it, we must create the conditions for a balance of power by showing our unity. Then we must refuse any compromise on our national identity. We will never be a Russian colony again. We will not accept Yalta, any more than we will only accept the Russians occupy our territories indefinitely. This means that it will be necessary to continue working, again and again, to achieve their release. Finally, no compromise on our army, because without army, our security will never be guaranteed.
You know, I presided over a country that was protected by a so-called security guarantee, the Budapest memorandum [NDLR : en 1994, les États-Unis, le Royaume-Uni et la Russie ont signé avec Kiev un accord garantissant l’intégrité territoriale de l’Ukraine à condition que l’ex-République soviétique accepte de céder à la Russie ses missiles intercontinentaux et ses ogives nucléaires, ce qu’elle a fait]. After my election [NDLR : juin 2014, deux mois après le début de la première guerre du Donbass]I followed the protocol provided by this memorandum to the letter in the event of a threat to our sovereignty. What happened? Nothing ! We did not receive military assistance on the pretext that we had not been struck by nuclear weapons! So security guarantees are Blabla. Personally, I only see one: NATO. In my opinion, the Alliance must launch the first step in its procedure vis-à-vis the integration of Ukraine, namely a formal invitation to join it. Believe me, if Ukraine joined NATO, war would stop immediately. Otherwise, it will continue and will not stop at European borders. Can it extend to Baltic and Poland countries? My answer is yes. If you do not stop Putin in Ukraine, you, Europeans, you can prepare your economies, your populations and your armies in the war.
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