New complaints against Abbé Pierre in France, a man of the Church and fervent defender of the poorest. Seventeen new testimonies of sexual assault have been identified, in addition to the seven already collected a few weeks earlier. He was also a violent man who assaulted and even raped women for years. The image associated with Abbé Pierre will now be that of a sexual predator, according to RFI guest, the general delegate of the Emmaüs International association, Adrien Chaboche.
RFI: New revelations about Abbé Pierre are further dispelling this French myth. This man, founder of the Emmaüs companions, committed to the poorest of people his entire life. But also a man who assaulted women and at least one child, as many testimonies claim. The first accusations were made public last July, seventeen others were added a few days ago for acts some of which can be defined as rape. It should be noted that you yourself, the Emmaüs association, are contributing to the uncovering of this information. When did you first hear about these attacks?
Adrien Chaboche: We were contacted in June 2023 by the testimony of a victim, which led us to initiate this work of understanding and analysis of what could have happened. Hence a listening work, which we entrusted to a specialized firm, the Egae firm, whose conclusions we made public for the first time in July, after opening a direct testimony line, and a second time last Friday.
What is your role today alongside the victims?
First, it is essentially about listening to them. Finally, giving them the listening they should have had, long before. Some had already contacted the authorities, either at Emmaus or at the Church, and had not been heard. I believe it is important to recognize that what they have experienced is completely abnormal and that we denounce it in the strongest possible terms. And then, afterwards, to provide them with support, especially those who wish to do so can benefit from a session with a psychologist specializing in psychotrauma and we are in the process of organizing meetings between victims who wish to do so and members of our boards of directors to have a real exchange.
Are you planning other concrete measures to support them, perhaps to repair them too?
This is a long and difficult task. We are working on it, we are thinking about it. Indeed, we are well aware that we need to move forward on this subject. For the moment, it is something that we are currently thinking about.
There is a choice on your part to be transparent, even active, alongside the women who denounce these attacks. A choice that has been welcomed by several feminist groups. But in fact, and this too, you told us, many knew… Our colleagues at Radio France have had access to documents that show that the Church and the Emmaüs organization were aware of it as early as the 1950s. Why was Abbé Pierre covered up at that time and for decades? ?
This is a very good question, which I, in any case, am not able to answer with certainty, because it requires, as you said very well, searching for archives, interviewing people over a long period and in several countries. This is work that we would like to see carried out. So, we decided to create a commission of historians and researchers in social sciences to be able, in complete independence, to answer the questions that you have asked and which are also ours. That is to say, how was such a well-known man able, for so many years, to do what he did without a real stop being given for a moment?
You work with a private firm, which is the Egae firm. It is a reference in France for supporting victims of sexual assault. Do you also encourage victims to file a formal complaint and take legal action?
We believe that victims should be able to be supported in their choice, including a judicial choice if they wish to make it. In any event, we keep all our information at the disposal of the courts if they wish to take action.
Is this something you encourage?
This is something we are ready to support.
A number of decisions have been announced recently, the Abbé Pierre Foundation said it was going to change its name. A memorial site is also going to be closed. Are other measures being considered within Emmaüs International, which is one of the organizations founded by Abbé Pierre? Because today, in these three associations, the image of Abbé Pierre is omnipresent.
Yes, he is a very important figure for us, of course, historically and also symbolically. Many people who get involved in Emmaus, or who join us as companions, sometimes do so in the name of Abbé Pierre. There is work that is starting, but which is really at the very beginning of awareness of what he was able to do, in order to reconstruct our history, not by erasing Abbé Pierre, but by taking into account his personality that we did not know, by presenting ourselves to the world differently.
It is possible to continue to claim to be fighting for the poorest, while taking into account these horrors that have been committed for decades. ?
Claiming to be from Abbé Pierre is a difficult question… But the battles that Abbé Pierre fought and which are also those of the Emmaüs movement since the beginning, yes, because they are our battles. Emmaüs is a collective work, which would certainly not exist without Abbé Pierre, but which would not have existed either without the first companions, without the friends of the volunteers, all the people who made this action possible and who implement it on a daily basis today.
Do you see any effects on the people who work with you, particularly on volunteers who might be discouraged or who no longer want to work for your associations?
There was obviously shock, shock, great suffering, pain obviously… But I also heard people say: ” but in fact, this does not prevent us from continuing to act on the values which are ours and which, once again, are those of the Emmaüs movement, independently of Abbé Pierre. “So, I’ve heard people say that it hurt us, that it affects us, but that it won’t stop us from continuing our actions and continuing our fights as before.
With the name of Abbé Pierre which can still appear on a certain number of documents, on sites, on buildings, during operations?
This is work that takes time. Because it is also work that this organization must carry out, which is an organization of grassroots groups. That is to say, each group is independent and we build our collective decision together. Obviously, this takes time on the scale of 40 countries and more than 400 groups. Each group must now begin this work of reflection on the place it will give to Abbé Pierre. We do not give instructions, but we invite people to be responsible in the choices that are made, given the fact that the image of Abbé Pierre, now, is also that of a sexual predator.
Also readFrance: Documents reveal how Abbé Pierre muzzled those who wanted to denounce him