It depends Read Literary Magazinethe French novel of the year 2022. After The House in 2019, chronicling a Berlin brothel that had earned her the wrath of feminist associations, Emma Becker once again marked the literary season with Misconduct (Albin Michel). Finalist for the Prix de Flore or the Prix Castel, present on the Renaudot or Interallié lists, this Madame Bovary in Tinder time is a new autobiographical story centered on female desire. Between radical feminism and patriarchy, Emma Becker pleads for a third way. Maintenance.
L’Express: Your novel has once again been described as “sulphurous” in the media…
Emma Becker: I ended up getting used to it. Ever since I’ve been writing books, this label has stuck on my back. From Mr. [2012], I was cataloged as an erotic author. Not that I’m ashamed. But I’m not talking about sex to create a scandal, but because it’s a language we share and which creates a lot of resentment and misunderstandings. Sex is everywhere today. However, it is always complicated for a woman to enjoy or to surrender. Things haven’t changed that much.
Twenty years ago seemed The sex life of Catherine M. Would there still be a difference in treatment today depending on whether one writes about sex as a man or a woman?
I notice that many men put ass scenes in their books, without them being cataloged as erotic authors. There is still this very unconscious thing: if a writer talks about sexuality, she would only address women. Are you unable to cum or are you sharing your desires? It’s your own little problem. On the other hand, it poses much less of a problem when male authors speak lightly and crudely about sexuality. They do not pass for “badly fucked” or “hysterical”.
After the publication of Misconduct, several people said to me: “Ah, if a man wrote half of what you write, it would pass for bragging”. But the big difference is that unlike many male writers, I don’t list my successes, but my fiascos! In the same way, I would like to read books by male authors in which they talk about their shortcomings in sexual matters, the times when they were poor. That would change.
In the book, we find the character of a director, Vincent, also a fan of self-writing. The press mentioned the name of Emmanuel Carrère…
It is not him. It’s very easy to sum up a book by the presence of a personality that you think you recognize. But my characters are composite. And I don’t use people to write books. All the work of autofiction is to make poetic and interesting situations which, beyond that, are unspeakably mediocre.
In the book, this character looks down on you. Do you suffer from a class complex?
Because we write about sexuality, we would not be part of white literature. You can have success and notoriety, but you’re still a scandalous person. I know that if I wrote about more respectable things, it would be easier for me to be part of a literary caste that I feel does not want me.
“Men feel like I validate them. When in reality, I don’t overwhelm them”
You were on the first lists of various prizes (Renaudot, Interallié, December) and finalist for the Prix de Flore, with juries that were sometimes always very masculine…
Having lived in Berlin for a long time, I don’t really have any contact with this milieu. I don’t know the stuff of publishing. But it fills me with joy to have been on the lists for these awards. 70-year-old men said to me: “Ah, you are not revengeful and aggressive feminism” (laughs). For a very long time, I had this image of Lolita who writes to make these gentlemen hard. But ultimately, it is among women that I find the welcome that touches me the most. The men, on the other hand, have the impression that I validate them. Whereas in reality, I do not overwhelm them.
You say that men also suffer from patriarchy. Why ?
I do not overwhelm the men, because they undergo the system which they themselves set up. Taken individually, most of them do not understand that even today, this world always gives reason to men. When you are a girl, from an early age, you are made to understand that the same thing is not expected of you as for boys.
But I love men, I know they’re not all rotten, and that there are ways we can understand and get along. It seems to me that sexuality is one of these means. A priori, we are all running after pleasure. It’s something that should bring us together.
You debated with Catherine Millet for the Obs. Five years after MeToo, we still feel a strong generational divergence between you…
I loved The Sex Life of Catherine M. I recognized myself in the book. But the fundamental difference is that Catherine Millet had her first experiences in a post-68 context. I am of a later generation, much more puritanical.
Moreover, MeToo still represented a great awareness. It was not pleasant to revisit his sexual biography, thinking that such a man had still behaved violently, when at the time, we could say that he was just a little cavalier. MeToo forced us to make this personal assessment, and to sort out what was aggression and our consent. This is a very useful awareness. But I understand that many women don’t want to say to themselves: “there, I was attacked, there I should have said no”… MeToo, it’s a kind of open-air psychoanalysis, and I find this very well.
“Abolitionist feminists spend their time infantilizing women”
Haven’t there been excesses, like the Julien Bayou affair?
No revolution is made by trying to spare the goat and the cabbage. I could have lodged a complaint against several men, whereas at the time, I told myself with a little fatalism that it was simply life. I think that many of them are afraid of finding themselves in one of my next books. But women don’t ask for much, apart from basic respect for who they are. Even the most revanchist of feminists do not seem to me to have hallucinating claims, if not to question these sexual behaviors. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the education of young men.
But don’t certain excesses scare you? Personalities have found themselves accused by a media court, without this falling within the legal domain…
Heads rolled, and they weren’t necessarily the ones who deserved it the most. But the media stories after MeToo also proved that even the men who were thought to be beyond reproach still had problematic sexual behavior. This raises the question of why men feel they have such leeway, such impunity, when it comes to winning over women or making love. Honestly, I find it very sexy that a boy asks if he can kiss you. Consent is adding dialogue.
Adapting your novel The House on prostitution was theatrically released. You have been criticized for this book by abolitionists like Alice Schwarzer…
I have respect for feminists like Alice Schwarzer. They knocked down many obstacles that were in our way. And I learned that she was a great friend of Reiser, a cartoonist whom I adore. I tell myself that there must be a possibility of humor and dialogue in this woman. But you also have to understand that the world has changed. Abolitionist feminists spend their time infantilizing women, constantly repeating that we would not be aware of the male influence to such an extent that it would be inscribed in us. Eventually, we would have no power over ourselves, so brainwashed were we. I prefer a more pragmatic feminism.
You mention motherhood very little in Misconduct. Why ?
It’s hollow in the book. I tell how I wanted to escape from motherhood, and how I also wanted to come back. A child pushes you to your limits, it creates frustration. There is a requirement in motherhood that makes us say to ourselves, once we have had a child, that we will be restrained all our lives. But we recover. The proof, I had a second child (laughs). Maybe one day I’ll write more directly about motherhood. But I felt so trapped by this condition that I wanted to write a book that wouldn’t lock me into this state even more.