How does an intellectual find himself, weapons in hand, on a battlefield? Ukrainian writer Artem Chapeye asked himself this question many times before enlisting in his country’s army in March 2022, at the time of the first Russian attacks. He could easily have avoided this responsibility thanks to his high-ranking contacts, hiding behind his anti-war convictions. But, faced with a war of colonization by the Russians, the man on the left wanted to take up arms for freedom.
For almost two years, Artem Chapeye has been alongside the Ukrainian people, who, like him, risk their lives every day. From his experience, he draws a story which has just been published, Ordinary people don’t carry machine guns (ed. Bayard Récits). It is a testimony, punctuated by his reflections, on life at the front, daily fear, doubts, and sometimes, his anger. This targets those who have chosen to escape this interminable conflict but also those who, in the West, have still not understood the historical challenge posed to them by the aggressor Vladimir Putin. Interview.
L’Express: Why did you join the army?
Artem Chapeye : At the very beginning of the war, everyone helped each other. We were all in the same boat. Very quickly, it became apparent that some people would go to fight, voluntarily or because of the mobilization, and that others would escape. I could have been one of the latter. I am left-wing and pacifist. But I realized that most of my ideals existed only in pure theory. When your home is attacked and your children have to flee, only concrete decisions matter.
Contrary to what one imagines, certain people who proclaim themselves “patriots” and “nationalists” did not participate in the fighting. They were the first to try to avoid mobilization. This led to sometimes very ugly scenes of life… Now, a new law on mobilization will soon be passed, and a new wave of mobilization will take place. We will see how it goes but, obviously, many will continue to hide.
At the front, with the other soldiers, we think of the people who are really scared. We feel sorry for them and can’t really blame them. I know someone whose parents haven’t left their apartment in two years. And those who hide to escape the front must almost disappear from society, because they know that it is, in a way, social suicide. These people are therefore often depressed.
Do you consider yourself a patriot?
I don’t really know. I think more in terms of imperialism and colonization. In my opinion, it is thanks to the thousands of people who sacrificed themselves for this war that my own family, once refugees in Germany, was able to return to live in kyiv. I met many foreign volunteers who came to fight alongside us. Poles, an Israeli, an Englishman with an Oxford degree… They are driven by humanism, not by patriotism. So, for me, it’s not about patriotism in the classic traditional sense but about a kind of love for people and the fight for justice. We make choices on a personal level, not on the level of the homeland.
In your book, you talk at length about class inequalities in war…
Yes. Everyone understands fear because going to war is scary. This is forever a huge break in one’s life. But among those who want to escape it, there are those who think they are above it all. It crossed my mind myself, as a writer. But as in any country, I think it is also a question of class: people who are quite rich are not mobilized, because they can go see a doctor by paying bribes and declare themselves unfit to the war. In other words, for them, war is a choice. Conversely, peasants or workers have little choice. George Orwell – who joined the Spanish Civil War in 1936 on the side of the Republicans against Franco – explains in his book Homage to Catalonia that in times of war, class inequalities between rich and poor resurface in other forms.
Are the social divisions of Ukrainian society, after two years of war, strengthening?
Economically, yes, and they are and will always be there. But other divides are disappearing, such as the linguistic divide, between those who speak Russian and those who speak Ukrainian. Now it doesn’t matter anymore. Politics doesn’t matter anymore either. It doesn’t matter which candidate we voted for in the last election, or where we come from. Before February 24, 2022, people from the East were considered pro-Russian stereotypes; now, they are the ones who hate Russia the most, because they are paying the highest price for the invasion and occupation. I met soldiers and police officers from the Donetsk region, half of which is now occupied by Russia. These people lost their homes, or escaped from Mariupol, it’s horrible.
In a way, the Ukrainian army today is a “melting pot”. I am from the left, but many people from the right are also present. I am an atheist, but there are many Christians. There are homophobes, and homosexuals. I met homeless people, a famous poet, a feminist editor, a hairdresser, an animal rights activist who is vegan. In war there is no division. The only one that is starting to emerge is on the question of commitment.
Do you think that after the war a myth of the Resistance will be born, as in France after 1945?
Yes I think so. I recently discovered the myth of “resistancialism” theorized by the French historian Henry Rousso. It refers to the myth fueled by the Gaullists according to which all of France was resistant during the Second World War… In reality, only 2% of the population was involved in the Resistance. But after the Armistice, it was necessary to construct such a national narrative. In Ukraine, I hope that collaboration with the Russians is limited. Only a small part of Ukraine is occupied, and I hope that it will always be like this, and that we will recover these territories. After the conflict ends, there will certainly be people who say that everyone was heroic.
What do you think of the Western media’s coverage of the war?
It’s definitely decreasing but that’s normal. There is a certain weariness after two years. The conflict between Israel and Hamas has distracted some attention. I often think about the Czech writer Milan Kundera and his book The Unbearable Lightness of Being. He says that during the USSR’s invasion of Czechoslovakia, people only talked about that. Then, the occupation continued and the invasion was forgotten by everyone. Fortunately for us, it seems to me that decision-makers in the West realize that this war is also important for their own future and, even, for the international balance.
At the front, do the soldiers feel like they are fighting for the security of the whole of Europe?
Most people don’t really care about geopolitics. They are fighting for their own families and their dignity. We often imagine that soldiers are young men aged 18 to 20. But in Ukraine, they cannot be mobilized before the age of 28, so they are quite old men; most have children. They are fighting for their families and so am I. I met someone who has very different political opinions from mine, very masculinist. He could have been an admirer of Putin. He told me that when the Russians came, he had a choice between being a trembling creature or a stupid creature. And he chose to become the mindless creature that fights against the very powerful invader. This is how he determined his choices. Geopolitics is for more politicized people.
I am grateful for the money and military aid Ukraine receives. At one point there was controversy over the fact that Ukrainians were not grateful enough for the aid the West was giving them. But it’s not true: the Ukrainians are grateful, I assure you! Without help from the West, we would have been massacred. But European countries are not doing this out of charity, it is also their interest in the face of an imperialist Russia which could threaten them. When some analysts claim that Russia is waging a “proxy war” against the West, I feel offended. This rhetoric – which is also that of Putin – completely erases us from the equation. For me, this is simply a colonialist war. And the analysis of certain Western thinkers influenced by Putin is disappointing. Here we call it “Westsplaining” [NDLR : des Occidentaux qui pensent mieux juger la situation que la population concernée, en l’occurrence les Ukrainiens].
Is the Russian opposition, in Russia or in exile, doing enough in your opinion?
At the start of the war in 2022, we naively hoped that Russians would be so outraged by their government’s cruelty that they would demonstrate en masse. They certainly went there, but were repressed fiercely. Most of these protesters were educated, liberal, middle-class people. They had too much to lose in Russia, so they went abroad. Concerning the majority of Russians who are still in Russia, it seems to us that they support this war, out of pure imperialist spirit. Supporting Putin and his idea of Russia gives them the impression of belonging to a “whole”, to something big. They say that Russia is a great country, that Russians are a great people, with a great culture. They fail to specify that this “greatness” was built through the crushing and domination of other peoples.
We consider the Russian opposition insufficient, but there are some valuable dissenting voices. I admire the Russian saboteurs who derail freight trains loaded with military equipment heading to Ukraine. I also admire those who burn down military recruiting offices with Molotov cocktails. In my eyes, they are real heroes.
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