When asked how he is doing, Elie Barnavi pays little attention to his personal news. “You know, for seven months [et le 7 octobre]all moments are complicated”, replies the Israeli historian, former ambassador to Paris, without even mentioning the demonstrations which target him personally at the Free University of Brussels (ULB). Since Tuesday, students have occupied their establishment to demand, among other things, the cancellation of his appearance at a debate organized by the university on June 3.
In a press release, the Student Union describes him as “the representative of a fascist, supremacist, apartheid state, of racism based on the dispossession of Palestinian lands and ethnic cleansing since its creation” and says it refuses that he “comes to justify and defend the interests of the Israeli state, moreover in the midst of genocide.”
This fringe of Belgian students has undoubtedly poorly revised the profile of the historian Elie Barnavi, former diplomat, fierce opponent of the government of Benjamin Netanyahu and colonization in the West Bank, who has just signed two columns, in The world And Release, urgently demanding recognition of a Palestinian state. For L’Express, this voice of peace, an increasingly rare species in Israel, recounts its dismay in the face of these student movements in Europe and the United States.
L’Express: Students from the Free University of Brussels are blocking their establishment and demanding the cancellation of your visit. What was your first reaction when you learned about this boycott movement?
Elie Barnavi: To say I was surprised would be an exaggeration. We live in a time where everyone finds themselves assigned to their identity. It’s damaging, it’s stupid, but we’re used to it. At university, whether in Belgium, France or the United States, preventing people from expressing themselves when what they say does not find favor in our eyes is already a well-established habit. I am not the first and unfortunately certainly not the last to whom this will happen.
The rector of ULB, Annemie Schaus, responded to students this Friday and maintains your invitation to the conference. Are you planning to go there?
Yes, I’m going to go, if only for her and so as not to leave an easy victory to these young fools. The rector wrote me a very kind letter to assure me that she would never give in to these unreasonable demands. I have no reason to boycott myself.
The situation goes well beyond my personal case and even beyond Israel: there is a politics of identity which becomes a politics of hatred. In many cases, it becomes forbidden to express oneself because one is assigned a specific identity and this identity displeases someone. It’s very common, and in the United States, it’s even worse. This policing of thought and speech permeates places that, in principle, are made to encourage free debate and critical thinking, where people are supposed to be judged by what they say and what they do, not not about what they are.
There is often enormous cowardice on the part of university authorities and professors, with this desire to please a youth who would be inherently virtuous, without ever asking the question of their knowledge. They have no interest in the debate: we occupy, we say our thing, and let the others bow! It’s bad for the university, it’s bad for the intellectual place, it’s bad for the future of debate. The Free University of Brussels has the word “free” in its title; it was created precisely so that there would be a secular space for free discussion, against the control of the Church. As a result, we are much freer today at the Catholic University of Louvain than at the Free University of Brussels. It’s sad.
If they listened to you, what would be your message for these students who refuse the very idea of your coming?
I would first tell them that it is nevertheless extraordinary that someone like me, who was able to teach for three years in a row at Al-Quds University, in Palestine, where I was always welcomed as a friend , cannot be welcomed by their comrades in a European university.
“According to the demonstrators, Israel has no right to exist, so we do not discuss with someone whose very existence is a permanent scandal”
Second thing, I would tell them that they come, that they debate, that they listen to what I have to say, that they tell me what they have to say and we will see if we can go somewhere. But their truth – if there is a truth – cannot be imposed by refusing to listen to the other, that makes no sense.
Finally, third thing, I would tell them that they must understand that they are in this case the best allies of Benjamin Netanyahu and his acolytes. The latter can thus spend their time saying that we are facing anti-Semites and that, no matter what we say or do, we are hated because we are Jews.
Thursday evening, during EurovisionBelgian television chose not to broadcast the performance of Israeli singer Eden Golan…
You teach me. Gorgeous…
In Malmö, thousands of people demonstrate against his participation in this singing competition. How worrying is this wave of protest, even hatred, against the whole of Israeli society?
It’s worrying, but it will come to an end. I am disgusted but not desperate. This kind of wave swells and then eventually ebbs. This war will end and at that time the situation will calm down. But there lies the problem and it should be the subject of our discussions: we should understand why this war does not stop; why Netanyahu refuses to consider the day after; how the October 7 pogrom and Israel’s reaction are a disastrous policy… We should talk about the political conditions of this war and I could, I suppose, find myself in agreement with many of these demonstrators by talking about these subjects. But they do not want to talk politics, they are in a logic of eradication: according to them, Israel does not have the right to exist, so we do not discuss with someone whose very existence is a permanent scandal.
“We have the worst government since the creation of the State of Israel”
If I were in charge of a European university, I would be devastated. This is an intellectual failure of an institution which is not doing its job of regulating free debate. When I think that in the medieval university everything could be discussed, including the existence of God… The debate, the discussion, the disputation as they said at the time, was entirely free: that is the tradition of the European university. Today she has become a hypocrite.
The United States has suspended arms deliveries to Israel for the first time since the start of the Gaza war. Is this a warning for all of Israel or just for the Netanyahu government?
This is a strong signal to the Netanyahu government. President Biden has indicated that the delivery of defensive weapons is not in question. This is to prevent a large-scale incursion into Rafah, which I am personally opposed to. So I find that the Americans are wrong to be so soft and should be more firm!
We have the worst government since the creation of the State of Israel, with a cynical head of government, indicted several times and therefore every action is considered for his own maintenance of power, because if he loses it he risks going in prison. For this, he formed a government of which several members would be behind bars in Europe: a bunch of madmen, fascists, messianics… It’s an everyday nightmare. To imagine a better future, the only solution is to get rid of this government. It is true that it is our responsibility, but the Americans and the international community can help by isolating this government, and not Israel. For an international approach to be effective, it is necessary to carefully distinguish between the government and the people of Israel. For the moment, the Americans are not up to the task, but they are starting to be, little by little.
Many demonstrators draw a parallel between Israel and Russia, which should be punished in the same way for their wars. Is there a risk that Israel will become a pariah state?
The comparison between Israel and Russia does not hold, despite Netanyahu and his band of fascists: Ukraine did not perpetrate a genocidal act that would have justified the Russian invasion. This is a gratuitous, deliberate invasion aimed at destroying a sovereign state. It’s a stupid comparison.
The risk of becoming a pariah state exists but I don’t really believe in it. Governments are holding firm, in France as elsewhere, as we saw again on April 13 during the Iranian attack, with an international coalition that formed spontaneously to protect Israel. And public opinions are not in phase with extremist students. In polls, a majority of French people remain favorable to Israel and hostile to Hamas. Do not despair. Obviously, if we continue on this path, if we occupy Gaza, if we do nothing for the Palestinians, if colonization intensifies and becomes more and more violent then yes, the risk exists. But we’re not there.
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