With 1.5 million members, the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada (38 million souls) is the largest in the world, after that of Russia. This particularity gives this great North American country a certain expertise of Ukraine, based on human interactions. The country of Justin Trudeau is, moreover, a historic ally of the United States, the United Kingdom and France, which has supported Kiev since the first day of the Russian aggression a year ago, on February 24, 2022. Since then, Ottawa provided considerable assistance to the Ukrainian resistance, particularly in the form of training and military training.
Back from Ukraine, where she met President Volodymyr Zelensky (last week) and after attending the Munich Security Conference on February 18, Canada’s Minister of Foreign Affairs (since 2021) Mélanie Joly encounter The Express, in Paris on Monday February 20, to hammer home his conviction: “Ukraine will win because the allies are united.” Interview.
At a time when the two belligerents are preparing to launch spring counter-offensives, the world holds its breath. Some fear that Russia will take advantage of Ukraine. Is this also your opinion?
I do not share this pessimism. The allies are more united than ever and fully mobilized to support Ukraine until victory – and even, beyond that, until reconstruction. President Joe Biden’s visit to Kyiv on February 20 demonstrates the unwavering support of the United States and allies. I have just returned from Ukraine, where I saw President Zelensky and his wife. I also met the president’s chief of staff and several important ministers. I was impressed by their extreme resilience and motivation. They are ready for the counter-offensive.
Canadian Foreign Minister Mélanie Joly, in kyiv, mid-February 2022.
© / @kryzhanovsky_ed
Canada will support Ukraine as long as it takes, until the end. Our Leopard tanks are already in Poland. We also participate in the financing of anti-aircraft defense systems. Since 2014, we have been training Ukrainian soldiers in combat – training that takes place in Great Britain and Poland. So far, we have supported Ukraine with 5 billion Canadian dollars (approximately 3.5 billion euros). Which, given the number of inhabitants in our country, constitutes a record per inhabitant at the world level.
It is true that with Ukraine we have a special and privileged relationship. With 1.5 million nationals or people from this country, Canada is home to the largest Ukrainian diaspora in the world, after Russia. Between our two nations, there are correspondences. For example, Ukraine was considered the breadbasket of Russia. Similarly, the prairies of Canada are the breadbasket of North America. Many Ukrainian expatriate farmers use their skills in our agricultural sector. Between them and us there is a mutual understanding, an intimacy linked to the solid relations established from person to person.
You participated in the Munich Security Conference on February 17, 2023. What lessons do you learn?
The unity of view between allies is very strong. More than it was a year ago, before the war, when our respective intelligence services did not share the same analysis. The Canadian services predicted an imminent war. This was not the case for everyone. Today, this kind of divide no longer exists. Everyone is lined up. The G7 has moreover transformed itself into a kind of board of directors which coordinates decisions and operations related to Ukraine.
We have met eleven times in the last twelve months, compared to twice a year previously. We are working very efficiently: we have created the Ramstein Committee, which coordinates arms deliveries; we have a sanctions working group and a supply chain working group; we are working on the question of the indo-pacific because the repercussions of the war in Ukraine are global and obviously concern Asia.
Dmitry Medvedev recently visited a missile factory near Moscow, the director of which announced that the workers were now working the three-eight shifts. Aren’t western arms deliveries too slow?
The Russians thought they would use the winter to their advantage, which did not happen, even though they started a counter-offensive. On our side, we must speed up arms deliveries to Ukraine. We are engaged in a race of speed. We must develop our military industries because we must continue to arm kyiv in order to achieve peace and a negotiated solution.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says China is ready to arm Russia. Do you fear such a scenario?
Any form of direct or indirect aid to a country that violates international norms by militarily attacking another country is problematic. We know that China is watching the situation in Ukraine carefully. This is why our position vis-à-vis Beijing is extremely clear. The current situation is not disconnected from what is happening in Taiwan and Beijing’s designs on Taipei. In fact, Antony Blinken warns China that the United States and its allies are not fooled. We will see how Beijing – which, it is said, intends to put a peace proposal on the table – positions itself. For our part, one thing is certain: there can be no questioning of the sovereignty or territorial integrity of any country. This applies to Ukraine as it does to Taiwan.
China is a disruptive global power. In Canada, there are attempts at Chinese interference in universities, in research circles, in the minerals sector or even within the Chinese diaspora. We do not accept these actions and we say so clearly. Diplomatic crises with Beijing [notamment la “crise des deux Michael”; deux ressortissants canadiens emprisonnés en Chine en décembre 2018 et libérés en 2021, en représailles à l’arrestation au Canada de la directrice financière de Huawei, NDLR] taught us that clarity of speech was fundamental. With my counterpart Wang Yi, whom I met last summer, I had very clear exchanges about our constructive cooperation on the issue of climate change as well as on the issue of the Uighurs, where I made known our disagreements.
Vice President Kamala Harris has, for the first time, condemned the war crimes perpetrated by the Russian military in Ukraine. Could international justice emerge?
From the first days of the war, Canada was one of the first countries, along with Lithuania, to initiate proceedings before the International Court of Justice in The Hague and, in the following weeks, before the International Criminal Court, also in the capital of the Netherlands. In Ukraine, war crimes and crimes against humanity are evident.
I met with the Ukrainian Prosecutor General. He explained to me that the justice system in his country currently had 60,000 complaint files in court and that the local justice system was overwhelmed. Beyond material reconstruction, Ukraine will have to rebuild itself psychologically. Survivors will have been exposed to all sorts of human rights violations by Russian soldiers, including sexual crimes against women, children and even men.
Canada has joined the working group on the “crime of aggression” which aims to set up a special tribunal to address this issue. The crime of aggression defines crimes committed by persons or States having prepared, carried out or promoted an armed conflict aimed at destabilizing one or more sovereign States. We have to go through this if we want to find a way to indict Vladimir Putin in person. I repeat: the international system is based on norms; anyone who violates these must face up to their responsibilities.
Applications for NATO membership made by Sweden and Finland after the outbreak of the war are slow to materialize due to the obstruction of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. What do you think ?
It is fundamental for the security of the West that these two countries, whose armies are strong, join NATO. Canada is also the first country to have ratified their applications for membership. With these two countries, Canada shares common concerns such as the security and stability of the Arctic region. Turkey will have to assume its responsibilities vis-à-vis NATO. But for now, Ankara is facing a huge humanitarian crisis due to the earthquake that left tens of thousands dead.
What could the France-Canada relationship look like in the future?
Our relationship with France is a relationship of friendship. Thanks to the Francophonie, we are part of the same family. Ukraine gives us the opportunity to get closer and cooperate even more. In the Indo-Pacific region, where France is active and where Canada has been involved for a long time, we have common interests. Let us not forget that from there will come the most important growth at the world level and the most important boom of the middle classes in the years to come.
We also have a lot to offer France at home in Canada. Our country is indeed home to significant reserves of uranium, potash and strategic minerals for the energy transition. In Africa, where our image is good, in part because of Canada’s lack of colonial history on that continent, our presence can be useful. We can play a constructive mediation role to prevent new conflicts from developing.