INTERVIEW. How do you form a government? How to become a minister? Roger Karoutchi, former Secretary of State under the Sarkozy presidency, gave Linternaute.com some keys to reading.
This is Emmanuel Macron’s major ongoing project: to compose the future government which will implement its policy for the next 5 years. Since his re-election, the President of the Republic has delayed the deadline and does not intend to reveal the list of his new ministers for several days. Bluff when all the ministries have been awarded? Difficulties in finalizing his next government team? The hypotheses on the waiting time imposed by the Head of State are not lacking. But in the corridors of the Elysée, what is really happening, while the list of applicants is growing? How does Emmanuel Macron think about this reshuffle? What criteria does the Head of State use to make his choices? How are arbitrations decided? And on the other side, how do you manage to get a wallet? What are the steps to go through before being nominated?
Roger Karoutchi, former Secretary of State, in charge of Relations with Parliament from 2007 to 2009, provides some keys to understanding. Senator LR, political adviser to Valérie Pécresse during her campaign, explains what is going on under the golds of the Republic until the official announcement of the new government.
Linternaute.com – How do you compose a government? What are the aspects to take into account?
Roger Karoutchi – In a general way, and constant for 20 years, the first decision which returns to the president of the Republic, it is to know which level it intends to give to its government, if it wants a tightened government. Everyone says that at the beginning of the mandate, then there are upward adjustments. You have to reckon that a government is between 28 and 40 people. Systematically, the heads of state try to have a joint government. 60/40 is considered an affront.
“Logic dictates that each region can tell itself that it has a representative in government.”
The Presidents of the Republic try to ensure that the major regions are represented. When you compose a government, if you say to yourself that, for the Grand Est for example, there is no one in the government, that is a problem. Logic dictates that each region can tell itself that it has a representative in government. You need to have representatives from all the regions, an overseas representative…
Depending on the political color, all allied political families must have representatives. It depends on the balance. Today, En Marche will have more representatives, which will have more than Horizons, which will have more than Agir. There will be the Modem too.
Then there are personal choices on the part of the President of the Republic. Within political formations, there can be enmities and friendships. Few Presidents of the Republic agree to work with ministers they do not like. Power was transferred to the Élysée 15/20 years ago, beyond Matignon. The ministers are very close either to the collaborators, or to the President of the Republic at the Élysée. The current must pass between the president and the ministers.
What is the weight of the Prime Minister in the choice of government? Does he really have room for manoeuvre?
It depends on the Prime Minister. It is not an vexation, but when Jean Castex was appointed, I do not think that he was left in charge because he is not a recognized political leader. When Nicolas Sarkozy appointed François Fillon, it was Nicolas Sarkozy who formed the government. There have been discussions, adjustments between Nicolas Sarkozy and François Fillon. But when there were reshuffles, they were more the fact of the Élysée.
To propose is formal*. Everything is done before, at the Élysée. The President may have consulted the Prime Minister. But it is the president who has the decision. There is no leeway, as the president appoints and dismisses the prime minister. The Prime Minister can have ideas but, at the end of the day, it is the President who decides.
“Many things are done by attracting the attention of the president. We do not say to the President of the Republic: I want to be minister of such sector.”
The press speaks of personalities who try to “place themselves” for a ministry. When do the negotiations start? How to achieve it? What attitude to adopt?
The term negotiations is excessive. Because we do not negotiate with the President of the Republic. It is he who has the decision. Well upstream, this time, Emmanuel Macron was given re-election. Almost when everyone has said that they are representing themselves, people try to put themselves forward, either by being present in the media, or by highlighting this or that success in their ministry, town hall or region. . Many things are done by attracting the attention of the president, who, given the mass of his files, does not have time to look at everything.
When you are not yet a minister, you attract attention. But it’s not easy to attract attention: a mayor will propose an essential trip to a big city, with inaugurations, meetings with economic and social actors; the president is brought to his department; we are the vector of such and such a social or professional category (representative of farmers, president of a federation, etc.)… The most difficult thing is probably to say to ourselves: “the president has identified me and says to himself that I am someone who can contribute something.” On the contrary, some see themselves as ministers and the president can say to himself: “he or she does not bring me anything.”
“We do not say to the President of the Republic: ‘I want to be minister of this sector.'”
On the other hand, what is not done is to say: “by the way, I am the best doctor, therefore I want to be Minister of Health.” We do not say to the President of the Republic: “I want to be minister of this sector.” We put ourselves forward, we try to make ourselves indispensable. The ministers who hope to stay have been more active during the presidential campaign (spokespersons, trips, meetings). Others, knowing it was over, stayed behind. To stay in government, you have to be, if not indispensable, at least so active, that you say to yourself: “it’s good, he has results in his ministry, he does good things, but also in the countryside.”
The decision rests with the President of the Republic. Despite everything, can negotiations be carried through to the end?
At the time, Nicolas Sarkozy may have led some with Claude Guéant, then secretary general of the Élysée. There, it is Emmanuel Macron and Alexis Kohler (General Secretary of the Elysée – Editor’s note) who meet and imagine, probably with sheets, a list. Then we cross out several names. It runs for a few days. Under the authority of the president, they try to see what the partisan, regional, parity etc. balances could be. It’s done at the Élysée. That may not prevent Édouard Philippe, François Bayrou or Richard Ferrand from sending messages. But it is not certain that they will be heard.
The president may have noticed so-and-so, he’ll probably want to bring them into government beyond the demands. It is the president who decides, he has considerable leeway. But he cannot clash head-on with the components of his majority.
How does the President of the Republic choose his Prime Minister?
The president does according to what he feels. It depends on his perception. Maybe Macron says to himself: “I won, but hey, I’m not immune to social unrest, strikes, movement in the country, I want to respond to the idea of not doing a policy that on the right, I want to have someone at Matignon who will have the necessary image to discuss with the unions, to be on good terms with the professional organizations. It depends on his feeling, whether he imagines difficult social problems or not.
What are the different stages until being appointed minister?
“There is no tete-a-tete between the president and everyone who enters the government.”
Even before being put on the list, the Minister was probably called, either by the Secretary General, or, at the request of the President, by the Prime Minister, or by the President directly. This is particularly the case for important ministries, such as the Interior. Once you’re called, it’s done. It’s that the decision was made by the president. I don’t know many people who have been called and said no. It’s very rare.
Once the list has been defined, calls are made between the President, the Secretary General of the Élysée and the Prime Minister. The most difficult period is the 8/15 days preceding the government’s announcement because these are the times when there are rumours.
Is there a physical interview with the President of the Republic before being appointed minister?
No, there is no tete-a-tete between the president and all those who enter the government.
So how does one learn that one becomes a minister? By telephone ?
Often. It does not mean that you do not know the President, the Prime Minister or the Secretary General. It is quite rare to be appointed minister without knowing anyone, especially when they are politicians, deputies or ministers. Afterwards, we also have appointments which correspond to appointments of experts or technicians.
Is it common for a personality to refuse a position offered to them? Can this be frowned upon?
Anyone can refuse. Someone who would be the mayor of a very large city or someone, for experts or technicians, who would be at the head of a large company or a rectorate, and who would not want to be a minister, can refuse. But at this level, he does not publish it. The unwritten rule is that we can do consultations and, if you said no, you don’t have the indecency to put the person who proposed it to you.
What credence should be given to rumours?
It is difficult to verify them. It’s often the hopeful people who say, at dinner parties, that “I was approached – you never know by whom – to get this or that position” or “I have a feeling that it can do it , I’m interested.” All he has to do is say that to a journalist for it to spread. It never comes from the Élysée. There is an unwritten rule to be extremely discreet about contact with the Élysée until it is official. It’s not the rumors that influence, it’s even the opposite. Discretion is essential.
(*Officially, a government is appointed by the President on the proposal of the Prime Minister. However, the Prime Minister is himself appointed by the President, elected by direct universal suffrage. – Editor’s note)