Six African riflemen, including four Senegalese, one Ivorian and one soldier from Upper Volta (now Burkina Faso), have just been officially recognized as having “died for France.” All were executed on the orders of French army officers at the Thiaroye camp in Senegal in 1944. A look back at an unprecedented memorial decision with Aïssata Seck, president of the Association for the Memory and History of Senegalese Riflemen and director of the Foundation for the Memory of Slavery.
RFI: Aïssata Seck, what is the weight of this recognition by the French authorities in this case?
Aïssata Seck: So this recognition is an extremely important choice today, because it is a request that had been made for years by the descendants of these people who were massacred in Thiaroye in 1944. So, in my opinion, it is a coherent choice that allows us, on the one hand, to look in the face a very painful page of Franco-Senegalese history, and it will obviously allow other files to be opened, in particular the question of the official toll of 35 deaths that had been announced at the time by the French State.
Six riflemen posthumously recognized as having died for France, indeed. But what about the others? Why so few? Does identification take time?
Identification takes time. We need to look at the archives again, at least part of the archives that were handed over in 2014 by President François Hollande. And also look at the work of researchers and historians who have been working on it for years. And in my opinion, we should be able to allow the excavation of mass graves, because according to the research that has been done, a certain number of them were thrown into mass graves. And if we want to have an official report today that is close to reality, we should be able to allow that.
So the research work must continue?
The research work must therefore continue. The mention ” died for France ” is an extremely important step forward, because other presidents until now had not granted this mention ” died for France “Today, we are in a historic and major step forward. Nevertheless, we must be able to continue this work. A work that will allow, as I said, an identification, but which will also allow us to advance on the work of memory between France and Senegal, on an extremely tragic and painful history that took place during the Second World War.
And this work of memory also involves the archives. Can these documents be declassified to shed light on what really happened, and also the number of soldiers killed?
So until today, the French State officially handed over the archives in 2014 to the President of the Republic Macky Sall. So, I know that at the time, President Macky Sall had commissioned – well, had set up – a mission of historians and Senegalese personalities whose objective was to look at all these archives. Today, the archives that were handed over by France to Senegal are not open to the public. They are, I believe, only open to specialists. We should be able to have access to them and look very carefully at these archives. And then, as I said, beyond the archives that were handed over at the time, we do not know what was put in 1944, so we are not able today to say exactly what happened. And in my opinion, the priority is really the excavation of mass graves which will allow us to have an official report, because that is what the descendants are asking for. This is also what historians who work on these subjects are asking for and this is what will really allow us to have a figure very close to reality. Today, the official figure is 35 dead and 70 injured. In 2014, when François Hollande spoke, he gave a rather strong speech […] on site. He had been invited by President Macky Sall, so he was there. In 2016, his former Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault had also returned to Thiaroye. They had both acknowledged the fact that the figure of 35 dead was not necessarily a figure close to reality. And today, concretely, what would allow us to have an exact figure is the excavation of the mass graves where these unfortunate massacred soldiers were supposedly thrown.
And I would also like us to come back to the reaction of Ousmane Sonko in Senegal, Prime Minister. He explains that it is not up to France to unilaterally set the number of Africans betrayed, assassinated, after having contributed to saving it, nor the type and scope of the recognition and reparations they deserve. He is Prime Minister and he reacts as president of Pastef. So in fact, it is not a reaction from the authorities, but he is still head of government, so his word is seen that way. How can we understand it?
For the moment, I do not have the ins and outs of the discussions that took place between the French State and the Senegalese State on this subject, even if I know that the President of the Republic Bassirou Diomaye Faye and the President of the Republic Emmanuel Macron raised the case of Thiaroye during the official visit of the President of the Senegalese Republic three weeks/a month ago or so. Here, it is true that he is reacting as President of Pastef, so I do not have any particular reaction to have on this one. Nevertheless, I think it is important to note that this remains an extremely important step forward and that we must be able to seize this step forward and the work that has also been done by Senegalese historians on this mention and see how we can move forward in the right direction.
This was the continuation of Emmanuel Macron’s African policy in the footsteps of François Hollande. Is this a logical continuation towards openness?
Yes, it is a logical continuation and a coherent choice. In reality, we are in a year where we are talking about the 80th anniversary of the Thiaroye massacre. What must also be mentioned is that we are on the 80th anniversary of the liberation of France, the 80the anniversary of the landing in Provence. A landing […] with 235,000 French fighters, 90% of whom came from former colonial troops, from Senegal, Algeria, Morocco, the Pacific and the Antilles. And it is also important to mark this anniversary date with the heroism of these former soldiers who landed in the south of France on August 15, 1944.