Editor-in-chief of the Russian opposition media Dovod Ilya Kosygin left his home region of Vladimir for Poland in order to report to the public honestly about Russia’s war losses.
He compiles a list of dead Russian soldiers to prove that Russia is lying about the number of casualties in the war.
He believes that Russia is headed for chaos.
In what situation do you answer this call?
I’m at Krakow airport. My day has been spent preparing for the upcoming trip.
You and your Dovod team have figured out the beginning of the war Identities of Russian soldiers who died in Ukraine. What have you found out?
We investigate the fates of Russian soldiers buried in the Vladimir region. We have confirmed the identity of 260 soldiers. For example, we have found out that Wagner has recruited several convicted murderers into his ranks. Roughly speaking, Russian murderers are murdering people in Ukraine.
Where do you get information about the identities of the Russian soldiers who died in Ukraine?
From many sources. We use, for example, court documents, social media and leaked documents. We often get confirmation of the soldier’s identity from relatives and friends. In addition, we have a network of volunteers who investigate soldiers’ graves.
Why did you start to find out the identities of the dead Russian soldiers?
I had no choice. Dovod is the only local media in Vladimir that can write about Russia’s war losses. We want the Russians to know who the so-called war heroes really are. We want to increase information about what kind of people are fighting in Ukraine.
What kind of reception has your report on ex-criminals who died in Ukraine received?
People’s attitude towards Wagner soldiers is changing. In the early days of the war, the Wagner soldiers who died in Ukraine were considered national heroes, even though many of them were known to be criminals. After the Wagner Rebellion, they stopped being called national heroes.
How many Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine?
Dovod, BBC and [venäläinen oppositiomedia] Mediazona have managed to confirm the death of 26,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine. According to our common view, there are probably at least 50,000 soldiers buried in cemeteries across Russia.
Of course, the number alone does not tell the whole truth about Russian military losses. Many people have been reported missing. In addition, Russia buries soldiers in the occupied territories of eastern Ukraine. It’s hard to get information from there.
In my estimation, our data on military losses should be multiplied by at least three in order to get even close to Russia’s real losses.
The latest information on the dead from the Russian Defense Forces is from September 2022. According to Russia, 5,937 soldiers would have died in Ukraine since the start of the war. Why do people believe the government’s information?
The majority of Russians say they know that the regime is lying about the fallen. In my conversations with pro-war supporters, I have noticed that they often do not change their minds, even when presented with endless facts about the horrors of war. War supporters say they would rather believe the Russian state than investigative journalists.
What is the mood in Russia now regarding the war?
It seems that people are increasingly resorting to the worn-out rhetoric that there are no alternatives. Some fear that the country will fall apart and fall into chaos if Russia loses. Many admit that war is a terrible thing, but for them the war must be continued until Russia wins.
You have worked for years as a journalist and political activist. Criminal charges have been brought against you and your apartment has been searched twice. Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin sued you for defamation and won the court case. What do you think about this?
The court ordered me to pay Prigožin 500,000 rubles (€5,000) in damages for defamation, because my interviewee falsely claimed that Prigožin was guilty of luring minors into prostitution. In reality, Prigozhin lured minors into criminal activity.
I have been suspected To Alexei Navalny In the criminal case concerning the FBK organization and Mikhail Khodorkovsky In the Jukos story. I have come to the conclusion that I have been dragged into the story because I represent the opposition to the Russian security agency FSB. The FSB doesn’t seem to care that I’ve never met Navalny or Khodorkovsky.
Dovod and its editorial staff report to the Russian public from abroad. Why is Dovod’s delivery in Poland and not Russia?
Military losses are a hugely sensitive topic for the Kremlin. Journalists working in Russia can be jailed for reporting military casualties honestly. For example, it violates the law on the dissemination of information about the Russian military.
Dovod is a local media. How local journalism can be done remotely?
Surprisingly easy. I was afraid that our sources and audience would complain if we were not in Vladimir. None of my fears have come true. People living in Vladimir still send us tips, pictures and information.
What kind of challenges does the Russian opposition media operating abroad face?
The most difficult thing is to reach the Russian supporters of the war. I’m a barefoot Vladimir, but [Vladimir] Putin’s to supporters I have always been an outsider and a traitor. I live in Poland or Vladimir, supporters of the war consider me and the media I represent marginal.
How and where do Russian opposition media reach audiences at the moment?
It’s downright amazing that our audience has grown wildly during the war. Dovod’s website and social media channels are blocked in Russia and can only be accessed with a VPN connection. We reach Russian audiences on Telegram. Youtube is also an important media for the Russian opposition.
What kind of topics talk about the locals besides the war?
Launching a business is constantly on the mind of many. In addition to the war, everyday matters are discussed. About one million people live in the Vladimir region, and more than 300,000 live in the city. The municipality is at a loss of migration. Young people go to big cities. Many sectors are plagued by labor shortages. The birth rate is in the bottom mud. The death of hundreds of men is a huge loss for Vladimir.
Wagner recently organized an armed uprising in Russia. How was the rebellion viewed in Vladimir?
During the uprising, the governor of Vladimir got his neck smashed in the social media by a racketeering act. On the morning of the uprising, the governor and local officials suddenly began en masse pledging their loyalty to Putin on social media. This led to a huge uproar among the locals.
Putin gave his “line speech” after Wagner’s rebellion. How do you think the uprising and Putin’s presence affected Russians’ thoughts about the war?
Something changed in the consciousness of the masses during the Wagner uprising and Putin’s speech. Some described Putin as a weak leader. Many said they were disappointed. Some stated that Putin has no balls and that Putin was wiped off his feet like a rag.
What has changed in the consciousness of the Russian masses?
The start of the war, the launch of the movement and most recently Wagner have divided Russians in a new way. Russia is now much closer to civil war than it was a year ago. The Wagner Rebellion proved it. Even those who support the war believe in the outbreak of civil war.
How do you think the Wagner jupa will affect the Kremlin?
The president is the Holy Grail of the entire political system, almost like a saint. Putin has never looked so weak before as he did during Wagner’s rebellion. If the idea of Putin as a weak leader starts to spread among the citizens, it will probably lead to a big upheaval in the Russian political system. It seems that we will see big changes already in 2024.
How do you feel about your country?
Mostly negative feelings. Above all, I feel some kind of disappointment. Morally dubious warmongers have been part of the society I’ve lived in for 38 years and I haven’t even realized it.
Would you like to return to Russia?
Hard to believe that in the near future there would be such a change that I could return. I believe that difficult times await Russia. It may happen that I return to Russia. Of course, I still have a tiny hope that one day I will return to my homeland.
In this series of stories, we call Russians and look for answers to what is happening to representatives of various professions, civil society, journalists and activists in Russia.
The topic can be discussed until 23:00 on July 6, 2023.