EXCLUSIVE. Marina Ovsiannikova, the Russian anti-war journalist: “My son called me a traitor”

Her life changed on March 14, 2022, when she could no longer bear, three weeks after the start of the Russian invasion, to be an accomplice in the Kremlin propaganda, carried out to glorify Vladimir’s “special operation”. Cheese fries. That day, she appeared behind the presenter of the most watched television news in the country, brandishing a sign proclaiming “No War”. The images go around the world. Arrested and fined, she was released, then arrested again in August 2022 and placed under house arrest. Mid-October, she flees Russia with her daughter [son fils est resté en Russie] to take refuge in Western Europe.

Born in Odessa to a Ukrainian father and a Russian mother, Marina Ovsiannikova grew up in Grozny. During the first Chechen war (1994-1996), his house was destroyed by the Russian army. She then moved to Moscow, made her career in Russian public television – until last March. Today in exile, she speaks for the first time in a French media since her arrest last summer.

L’Express: On March 14, 2022, you held up an anti-war poster, live on Channel One, during the television news. At the time, did you imagine that the situation could degenerate to this point, eleven months later?

Marina Ovsiannikova: I never would have thought that the war lasts so long. It seemed to me that the whole world would unite and stop the Russian aggression. Justice would immediately be restored. After all, it was clear from the start that the war was a fatal and historic mistake by Putin and his entourage. The idea of ​​”taking kyiv in three days” sounded like a crazy adventure of the president, who over the years of unchallenged rule has completely strayed from reality. When I decided to do my intervention live, I was absolutely sure that the war would end in a few days. Unrest would break out in Russia, protests, the current regime would remove Putin from power. Unfortunately, none of this happened. A year has passed and absolute evil continues to reign in Russia.

When you appeared on screen, were you aware of the risks you were taking?

I was prepared for the fact that I would have to spend several years in prison for my protest. My biggest fear was being arrested before reaching the plateau and then rotting in the basements of the Lubyanka [le siège principal du FSB]. I was afraid that no one would know about my gesture, because I had not discussed with anyone what I was going to do. During my interrogation, I understood that only an international reaction could save me. I am grateful to everyone who expressed their support for me, including French President Emmanuel Macron, who immediately offered me diplomatic protection and political asylum. When Moscow found out, the tone of the questioning changed. The investigator said that people in high office, who were deciding my fate, were monitoring the international reaction.

You didn’t go to jail. How could you escape it?

I was sure that I would be imprisoned immediately. But a single mother is very troublesome prey for the authorities. This could provoke protests. They understood this very well and preferred to make sure no one believed me and smear my name by declaring that I was a British spy. And when I left Russia [en avril 2022, elle a temporairement quitté la Russie après que le journal allemand Die Welt lui a proposé un contrat], they said I was an FSB agent. You know how capable the Kremlin is of spreading rumors to sow confusion and cover their tracks. It was exactly the same with the Malaysian Boeing MH17 that was shot down over Ukraine. They first claimed that the plane had been shot down by the Ukrainians, because they are the only ones with Buk launchers. Then they put forward the version that it was a conspiracy and that the Ukrainians wanted to shoot down the plane of Russian President Vladimir Putin, which was flying somewhere in the Warsaw region on the same day.

Have these rumors upset you?

At first it was clear to everyone that this was a lonely protest, that it was my sole decision, but then different versions appeared and I realized that no one believed me. I then granted interviews: it was important for me to show that I am of good will, that I am not an intelligence agent, that I do not work for any foreign secret service and that this was my personal protest against the war.

Were there people who, in your writing, supported you?

No, nobody. All my colleagues stopped communicating with me, they cut ties. The only person who was not scared and wrote to me was promptly fired. It turned out that the FSB made a copy of my SIM card and could read all my messages in instant messengers. They showed this person our correspondence, accused him of working for Western intelligence services and forced him to resign.

Then you worked for Die Welt, notably doing a report in Ukraine, but the experience was cut short.

The biggest problem between Russia and Ukraine is distrust, because the basis of Vladimir Putin’s policy is lies, hypocrisy and aggression. Our country’s reputation has been tarnished not only in Ukraine, but internationally. Therefore, Ukrainians are not inclined to believe Russians. I went to Ukraine as a journalist for the newspaper Die Welt in order to tell the Russians the truth about the war. But at that time, anyone with a Russian passport was not welcome on Ukrainian territory, because Ukrainians have too much resentment and anger against us.

How did your loved ones react to your outburst on March 14?

It was very difficult. My relatives did not support me. My mother, who is Putin’s age, told me that I should be imprisoned as soon as possible, because I dared to denounce the authorities. My son called me a traitor to my family and my country. But I don’t mind, time will pass, and Putin’s personality cult will be debunked, as well as Stalin’s personality cult in his time, and they will understand everything. It will just take time.

Since the start of the war, has Putin strengthened his power?

Absolutely not. Putin’s power has waned during this year. He seems to be an insecure man, he is afraid of everything. He fears a blow from those around him, he has become wary and suspicious.

How do you explain the support he receives?

Russians’ brains have been brainwashed by propaganda. For 20 years, television has created the image of Putin as the savior of the Russian land. We have always said that the Tsar is good and the boyars bad. We have created an image of a leader without alternatives. But I think the polls are unreliable. Only loyal citizens, those who support power, agree to participate. These are mainly elderly people living in the provinces. Young people generally do not answer calls from unknown numbers – especially in Moscow, where the most politically active and progressive people live. Personally, I lived 25 years in Moscow and no one ever asked me to take part in these surveys! In reality, people are afraid. The fear of political repression is very strong. Before the war, more than one in two Russians feared state reprisals. Now I think that number is much higher.

Uprisings against the regime are therefore not an option?

There is no longer any opposition in Russia, it has been annihilated. The best people are in prison or in exile. Russia has become a totalitarian state where protesting is dangerous. If you raise your head, you will immediately be sent to prison, your property will be confiscated, you will lose your job and you will be considered a traitor. But that doesn’t mean people support Putin. It’s like in the Stalin era, the Russians hid to talk, they whispered in their kitchens. But today there is no one to unite them.

You spent part of your childhood in Grozny, Chechnya. And your father is Ukrainian. Two bruised places, two wars initiated by Putin…

If someone had told me that a second war would ruin my life and I would be a refugee again, I would never have believed them. During the first Chechen war, Russian troops razed my house. There was nothing left and my mother and I had to flee Grozny. It was the 1990s, long years of suffering and deprivation. When my house disappeared, I thought to myself that the day I have children, they will certainly have their own house and a happy childhood. For a long time I built this happy little world in Moscow – a big house, a family, all this well-being. And it seemed to me that happiness would be forever. But when the war started in Ukraine, I couldn’t stay silent. I couldn’t pretend nothing was happening. It was impossible to live in this cozy little world I was building. My life was destroyed by war when Russian troops bombed Grozny and destroyed my house, and now the Kremlin is depriving me of my home and part of my family and my homeland. But I’m alive, I’m free, I can’t blame fate. This story could have had a completely different ending.

You publish a book, “Entre le bien et le mal”, first in German, then in French and English. What is he talking about ?

It’s an autobiography. The focus is on the events of the past year, but there are also memories of my past life: the story of my flight from Grozny, my wanderings, my move to Moscow and my commitment to Channel One. I describe in detail how television became a brainwashing machine.

How and when do you think this war will end?

I can’t say how long it will take, but I’m sure the war will end in a crushing defeat for Russia. It is, moreover, for this country, the only means of abandoning its imperial ambitions and following a democratic path. There will be a general awareness, repentance and payment of reparations. And all the criminals who started this war will end up in the dock of the International Tribunal in The Hague.