Jonathan Coe loves France and France returns it well, which celebrates each of his new novels. It should be the same with The disunited kingdom (to be published on November 10 by Gallimard), a formidable radioscopy of England, brushing some seventy years of evolution of society and mores through the destiny of a family and seven key dates, chanting British mythology. From May 8, 1945, VE Day, to May 8, 2020, the 75th anniversary of that day in the midst of a pandemic, including the Queen’s coronation and the wedding of Charles and Lady D, the author of English will and heart of england deals with his strange nation struggling, in particular, with Europe and economic difficulties. The opportunity was great, during his visit to Paris on Monday October 17 (before the resignation of Prime Minister Liz Truss, therefore) to return to Brexit and government policy.
Among your 7 dates, you chose July 30, 1966, the day of the World Cup final: England against West Germany. Why ?
jonathan coe : Not because I’m a football fan, but because it’s a mythological event in the British imagination. This game, we won 4 to 2, but two of the goals were very limited, one didn’t really go in and the other was scored when the referee had already signaled the end of the game. Oddly, I compare this to the Brexit referendum, which saw yes go by 52% to 48%. So it was very close, but the newspapers seem to have forgotten about it, today they are talking about a massive victory…
What do you think prompted the Brexit victory?
In fact, I don’t think the English are very rational. We are in the emotion, most of the time we do not express it but it happens, for example, by the funerals of the royal family. It takes this kind of event for the population to pour out. This supposedly cold and emotionless nation then cries in the street. Likewise, the vote to leave the European Union is the result of emotion and not of rational reasons. England feels naturally and inevitably detached from the rest of Europe, because we are an island, yes, but also because the English feel unique. The problem is that today you cannot afford to think like that, countries, economies, populations, everything is linked… One of the other big reasons for the Brexit vote is that the politicians made the population believe that leaving the European Union would be easy, no one explained to them that it would be so complex; in a way, that was the biggest lie of the pro-Brexit campaign. This is why Boris Johnson was appointed in 2019, because three years after the vote for Brexit, the negotiations were still not completed.
Is this feeling of exceptionality shared by the whole population?
No, I don’t think so, Brexit is a tragedy induced by the 2016 referendum. Young people in particular do not share this sentiment. I was able to observe on their part a disturbing detachment and a great deal of disillusion. They see nothing constructive around them. A large proportion of young people are interested in the climate and the environment, yet there is only one Green MP in Parliament, the British parliamentary system not allowing environmentalists to impose themselves.
Is the current dire economic situation due to Brexit or rising energy costs?
Has a mix of it all. But in the other countries, the consequence of the increase in energy is less serious than in England. Here, the average citizen has seen his electricity bill go from 1000 pounds to 3000 pounds, it’s madness. As far as Brexit is concerned, what is incredible is the refusal of politicians on all sides, left and right, to admit that Brexit has increased the difficulties. No one today is seriously considering joining the European Union, but that is no reason to claim that leaving Europe did not have harmful consequences: it created enormous economic problems, it disrupted transport, and the second market, etc. The fact is that our government is as little state as possible, but now many people, and not only on the left, would like us to nationalize electricity, water, transport… because in these areas, which are private, prices are constantly rising.
Overall, people are not very interested in politics – which is a shame – but there they are, they have noticed that their electricity bill has doubled and that the companies are still making huge profits, so all this begins to seriously upset and exasperate them. The current government is very unpopular; in all the polls, Labor has a wide lead over the Tories. If there were legislative elections tomorrow, the Conservatives would be beaten, but there are no elections tomorrow, we still have two years to live like this. That said, I think we’re hitting rock bottom and in five or ten years we’ll be a little better…
Interview by Marianne Payot